User talk:Dagg/Archive01

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User talk:Dagg

Latest • Archives #1

Contents

AmEx

I thank you for correcting that other guy's edit (re: AmEx page)... very annoying when people take liberties in interpreting, when they don't get the info right, especially pertaining to a site where people have limited access. --PandoraX 05:23, 17 October 2006 (PDT)

Burnt Out

Yeah. Tired of trying to set the children straight. There're too many of them; I give. —XSG 10:13, 29 October 2006 (PST)

re: Podcast

I just got the info from this news post, so I'm assuming it's correct. For some reason iTunes has stopped finding new episodes of the podcast for me. -Chris[dt7] 11:46, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Templates

  • Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out :) --PandoraX 23:35, 7 November 2006 (PST)
  • Thanks! I figured out that's what I did wrong last night, but I didn't know if it made any difference if I renamed it or not. Given that, I will. --PandoraX 06:29, 8 November 2006 (PST)
  • Hey Dagg, that's a cool mini-template. Just wanted to point out that I added a couple of other themes to the larger themes nav template Template: Nav-Themes, but maybe you saw alredy, and just wanted to keep your list more limited, which is fine, just wanted to let you kno w. :) But this is bugging me, could we make "The Numbers" alphabetical by "N", i.e. [[The Numbers|Numbers]] ? Thanks, and BTW, cool idea to add this to the episodes. --PandoraX 16:05, 10 November 2006 (PST)
  • Great job on the new meta templates! Wondering if you could take a look at Template:Nav-Objects and let me know if it looks ok, I tried to use the same template code. Can you help me change it so that first field (showing possession or association) has more room, for example, so that Desmond & Penelope show up on the same line? Thanks! --PandoraX 09:57, 11 November 2006 (PST)
  • Thanks for your help, that's just what I wanted :) --PandoraX 10:39, 11 November 2006 (PST)
  • Hey, Dagg. As you can see, I'm template-crazy lately, and love all your new improvements. On Template: Nav-MultiRowTemplate though, is there any way we can make the title centered? It looked fine on my other computer, but now I'm working on one with a large screen, and the title looks weird, off to the left. I was just going to <center> tag that template, but I didn't want to mess anything up. --PandoraX 19:36, 15 November 2006 (PST)
  • Cool, thanks, lookin great now! :) --PandoraX 20:58, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Template:NavMinor-Theories

Awesome. Just awesome! That's a rock star template if ever I saw one. —XSG 15:29, 11 November 2006 (PST)

Monster editor!

Such a monumental task but you worked it out! Nice job on the monster theories, Two thumbs up --EvilSmoke 17:01, 19 November 2006 (PST)

portal

I love your portal in 3-form. Excellent. -- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T00:47, 21 November 2006 (PST)

Recurring Themes edit

I hear you. For it to look more complete I should have deleted the parentheticals, but I just didn't want to completely get rid of the last person's work. The main reason I rearranged them was to give it more cohesiveness and allow others to add to the list more easily. As it is, they're a mix. Do you think you'd be okay with just changing the order if you feel they need to stay in their current format--just so that they would be better organized? Thanks for the heads up! --Hazel 12:09, 02 December 2006 (EST)

Hobnobob

Someone needs to ban him, pronto! I see you also tried to avoid the picture he uploaded, nice idea. I just replaced it with that 'Vandal picture' one. --SilvaStorm

Bob

I see you are really trying to stop his new name, User:The Right Honourable Bob, as I am. Thank you for your hard work.--LOCI!

Last Warning

I am going to upload my photo again. It is not being used for vandalism. The next time you delete it, I will cease my efforts to negotiate and revert to attacking--The Right Honourable Bob 13:23, 5 December 2006 (PST)

What agreement??? No-one ever met my demands!!!!!or even bothered to negotiate!!!!--The Right Honourable Bob 13:31, 5 December 2006 (PST)
Absolute nonense!!! My demands were never met!!! When was my image ever uploaded onto the Hurley page except by me? Never!!!! You are lying!!! And unless you meet my demands or at least hear me out you will pay!!!!--The Right Honourable Bob 13:37, 5 December 2006 (PST)
  • Ok now I'm pretty curious to know what type of demands exactly is this guy demanding ? What Hurley pic ? Is all of this over an image ?!!-- 13:42, 5 December 2006 (PST)
  • I think this loser wants to have his picture put up on the Hurley page. If it happens, he wont vandalise again, but I'm guessing he had a vandal-fix so he went crazy and wrecked the place. --Template:Degroot of all Evil
  • He wants to replace Hurley's image with his "own". Suffice to say no one is about to give into the demands of a vandal. He doesn't have power over us. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  14:44, 5 December 2006 (PST)

good work

I've been noticing a lot of good contributions from you; good work! Your experience with wikis shows. -- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T21:13, 15 December 2006 (PST)

Testing sig

Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123
Testing my sig.-- Dagg talk contribs4 8 13:06, 16 December 2006 (PST)
Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123 Testing 123

test page

What's this page for? Lostpedia:AWB/CheckPage --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 21:22, 17 December 2006 (PST)

Episode Names

Hey, I just thought I'd help you doing all the episode name things. I thought it was a bit unfair on you that you had to do it alone, so I thought I'd pitch in. Is that OK with you? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  05:18, 22 December 2006 (PST)

    • OK, feel free to send it :) But, does it work on everbody's computers? Or just mine and yours? Plus, I don't have firefox..... so maybe it won't work for me?? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  11:31, 22 December 2006 (PST)
UPDATE: OK so that piece of script is totally amazing, and because it's so cool, I've done a LOT of editing episode titles and finding mistakes and the like (i.e. 160 or so, I counted). Just thought I'd let you know :) And I also wanted to ask, are you going to ask the sysops to put this in the site javascript so that everyone can do it? That would make it easier for us then :-) --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  11:16, 28 December 2006 (PST)

GOSH

  • Hey Dagg, just wondering if I could use your GOSH console. If you could show me how i works and how to get it, that would be appreciated. Regards, Marik7772003 16:24, 29 December 2006 (PST)
  • I tlooks like it works great! I just tested it on the Swan computer page and it looks like it works fine. Thanks for your time and happy holidays. --Marik7772003 18:04, 29 December 2006 (PST)

Template

  • If you get a chance, could you take a look at Portal:Official Lost Podcast please? I made a chart, and I think it's ok, but I can't seem to get ride of the extra spaces under "Special Notes" (it makes it one space taller than they should be). Do you know how to fix it? --PandoraX 14:03, 30 December 2006 (PST)
    • Thanks so much! That totally fixed it :) I tried everything, but you got it. Happy New Year also. --PandoraX 15:02, 30 December 2006 (PST)

Hardwork Medal

medal moved to user page

So I'm giving you this with Pandora's permission. Make sure to copy it and then cut it from here so it doesnt show up on the list twice. Thanks a lot, --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  06:13, 2 January 2007 (PST)

  • Hey, LS didn't need my permission, since anyone can give these people these informal awards... but I totally do agree with him for it! You deserve it :) --PandoraX 08:10, 2 January 2007 (PST)
  • I think you deserve this medal too! Great work, seems like everybody's been noticing. -- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T 01:04, 15 January 2007 (PST)

You are my hero

And, um, basically, I want to know how to be more like you. Robert K S 07:23, 2 January 2007 (PST)

GOSH Console

  • Hey, happy new year! Just wondering if you were planning on adding the "cross-ref" thing into the GOSH console? I'd be more than happy to help you with it if you are. :-) I was just curious ;) Thanks, --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  03:33, 2 January 2007 (PST)
  • I don't know... do you think you could tell me the things you would be able to do using the javascript. The options and things... cos I'm not good with that stuff. I have no idea what I'm doing.... so yeah... :D --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  08:35, 3 January 2007 (PST)
  • Well, I thought maybe you could put in a code which replaces ({{ep|1x01}}) with {{crossref|1x01}}. What do you reckon? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  08:52, 5 January 2007 (PST)

On Titles & Such

  • Hi Dagg! Thanks for writing. Here were my thoughts:

On Return to

I added these in mostly for consistency. The return to's were actually there before I edited the pages, they came from when those pages were subheadings of List_of_Themes/Black_and_white, for instance. When we shortened up the names so that they were no longer / subpages, I wanted to make sure that no one would nominate isolation for deletion, just because the page seemed "random"... I wanted it to be clear that we have the page because it is one of the pages that falls into Themes. Now that we have the nav-bar links at the bottom, I don't think this is as important. But if you delete some of the "Return to" headings, I hope you delete them all, to be uniform, but there are around 30.

On capping subheadings

This was always the way I was taught to do so for writing papers, etc., h.s., college, and beyond, but I've never read formal conventions on it. We don't always *have* to follow wikipedia's MOS, since we are a separate site... but if this is the English standard (I'm kind of wondering if there are more references for this in paper-writing?), I've got no problems following it. My thing has always been consistency... once I know that something is a consensus others will go by, I'm good with following it. I think this is the case with the episode titles, which I've been doing "In Quotes" recently, instead of italics, before I knew we came to agreement. --PandoraX 15:11, 6 January 2007 (PST)

  • Take care! If you get a chance, could you check A-Missions talk page, please? A few of the guys wanted to make templates for that page, but I think they were doing some weird thing by trying to copy your article infoboxes and squeezing everything in there... not ideal for that page. I'm not sure if they are really needed, but I gave a better alternative, I think. I would however like someone like you, who is more familiar with wikitext, to take a look and see if you can make some adjustments or give feedback. Thanks! --PandoraX 14:55, 3 January 2007 (PST)
  • Just thought the irony of this was interesting... I went through the A-Missions page and lowercased the titles to conform with the MoS ideal we've been discussing, and someone else went back and changed it anyway, lol. I think this is going to be an uphill battle, and I guess I'll not debate it with him, because as you know, I actually agree with him... they do look better that way. --PandoraX 15:05, 6 January 2007 (PST)

Book Template

Thanks, Dagg, I was wondering about that. However, I'm not sure if it works for this one, as it messes with my alignment, and the fonts get smaller than they need to be. I was wondering if you could help me with the Wikismall template I made, how to insert that minitemplate in a standard place on all the larger templates, so they are aligned to one side? I tried a few things and it didn't work. The thing is, not all the books have a wiki link, so I just want it there for the ones that do. Only if you have time. Thank as always. --PandoraX 08:49, 7 January 2007 (PST)

  • Thanks, looks great! I think I can just fix alignment with the wikipediamini template myself (unless you have better ideas; ideally, it would be nice if the other text could wrap around that template, say if it were lined up with the author line, but not sure if that's possible). And, one more question. Is there a way to still have the templates show up at the top with the TOC, or did I miss that opportunity when I started templating? I was consider doing it by hand with anchors, but I wasn't sure if that would be the best way. Thanks a lot and sorry to bug you so much today. --PandoraX 09:38, 7 January 2007 (PST)
  • Yeah, you noticed that, too, great minds think alike. But I'll let you guys figure it out, the ever-growing templates (now that they're like the height of a page each themselves, LOL) are already giving me a headache, hehe. Either way, thanks, you're a great collaborator. --PandoraX 10:18, 7 January 2007 (PST)

His Request

I'm relatively new here and just wondering, what was Bob's orinal request? Obviously something dumb, but I just want to know.--Mr.Leaf 17:53, 9 January 2007 (PST)

I don't know. I remember it had something to do with his father that passed away. I feel sorry for the guy.--Dagg 17:56, 9 January 2007 (PST)
  • Too bad. I wonder why he chose Lostpedia. Ah I guess something will always remain mysteries.--Mr.Leaf 18:00, 9 January 2007 (PST)

Gosh Suggestions

  • Well to be honest it is not a huge problem, but the thing is there is so much to do that most of the regular users, who spend a lot of time her work on the bigger things, rather than fixing the small spelling mistakes. I notice a lot of new users just signing up to fix certain spelling mistakes. Although the additions I suggested would be helpful they are not necessary, just suggestions.--Mr.Leaf 11:56, 10 January 2007 (PST)

Sectionboxes

Is there any code that exists to turn links (i.e. Children) into a different colour to dark blue. I ask because on my sectionbox, Template:Sectionbox DHARMA Station, I absolutely love the black colour and grey text, but that mucks up the blue and makes it undecipherable almost. Any ideas? Thanks,   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  10:37, 12 January 2007 (PST)

  • Yeah... that's true... erm.... there's nothing you can put in the start coding, like at the beginning? Or (and Im asking your opinion here) should I change the colours (much as I love them)? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  12:12, 12 January 2007 (PST)
  • Ok thanks, I'll think I'll do it manually. What do you reckon? Would it be worth it? Or would I be better of sticking to a blue/green and then using my black for something else? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  12:35, 12 January 2007 (PST)

Station Explorers

  • Love the infoboxes! Would there be a way to change the colours though as I think that blue gets a bit repetitious? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  00:08, 13 January 2007 (PST)
    • Is there a way of adding to the Sectionbox template a way of manually editing the colour? Like an option at the bottom? I hope that made sense.... --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  00:21, 13 January 2007 (PST)
  • No, I mean that it's in the source, like this:
“

| Blah

| Blah

| Color=(then you put your colour here)

”

Does that make sense now? I just think it'd make it easier to change colours... --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  00:31, 13 January 2007 (PST)

  • Thank you that really helps. And I think it will help others too. I'll probs change the Station Explorers one to something a bit more interesting later on, if that's alright with you?

GOSH

  • First off, sorry for messaging you again, you must get bored of me..... lol. My main question is this: what's going to be in the next version of GOSH? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  05:27, 13 January 2007 (PST)

GOSH Idea

Just had a thought... why don't you add all the things which use Template:Link into the javascript so that when we click "Fix common problems" it does all of them? Wow that was badly explained.... --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  08:54, 13 January 2007 (PST)

Help

Hey Dagg. Lost Soul and I are trying to create a template, which doesn't work. Will you be able to help us? Obi-Dan Kenobi 11:21, 13 January 2007 (PST)

Oh, I admire you. Thanks! Obi-Dan Kenobi 12:40, 13 January 2007 (PST)

Season 1 and Season 2

Hey, we seem to have a difference of opinion over whether to have a TOC on the page or not. Personally, I think we shouldnt have the TOC, but have the table of anchors like before: it looks neater, makes the page more presentable and just looks better. Frankly, I dont like the TOC. But, Im not going to get in an editing war over it (Im not like that) so maybe we could agree? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  06:37, 14 January 2007 (PST)

  • No, just the TOC. Everything else was fine. We can wait and see what everyone else says, I mean, if it does stay with the automated TOC, Im not gonna go nuts or anything; it's not the be all and end all. :-) --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  06:51, 14 January 2007 (PST)

Questions

  • We don't need a link to theories on the article page. That is why we have the tab. If people can't see it, their theories don't deserve to be here. Plus the questions weren't about the episode, they were about the characters in the episode. An unanswered question dealing with an episode would be: who is the camera man? Which is stupid. That is why we don't have unanswered questions on episode pages.--CaptainInsano 14:07, 14 January 2007 (PST)
  • Yes actually believe in that they shouldn't have a theory pages.--CaptainInsano 15:41, 14 January 2007 (PST)

Misunderstanding

  • Yes I did change my text. But unlike you I didn't change a minute after I type it, I did it a second after which isn't enough time for him to read it and start to reply. Plus he was going to reply on my talk page not his, so it is a totally different. So it isn't close irony. You should really think about these things.--CaptainInsano 14:17, 15 January 2007 (PST)
  • I am not angry at you, I am just pissed off. Never try to speak for me. Why do you think I have never present my opinions about this before. Because I knew it would fail. I have already asked others what they believe of it and they have already disagreed with me. That is why I never took it to be voted on. You should never put a two-legged dog in a dog race. If you just drop it, I will eventually stop being pissed off at you.--CaptainInsano
  • The reason I deleted your questions were because they were to broad, for the wrong episode, or had already been answered. The unanswered questions section is meant for specific questions, meaning: Does the inscription on Eko's stick have significant meaning?; Will Ben survive the surgery?; Will Kate and Sawyer escape the Others? don't belong. You should try to come up with better questions next time.--CaptainInsano 15:03, 15 January 2007 (PST)

Re: Misunderstandings

  • I understand. Sometimes I think that he gets totally out of order, and in that instance, he deserved to be told that he was being rude. I will always stick up for people in situations like that, but I appreciate you thanking me. :-) I dont know what he has against you; maybe he was having a bad day... --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  00:21, 16 January 2007 (PST)


Spoiler policy

Hey Dagg, on the Not in Portland flashback, that's interesting. I'll admit I didn't read some of the discussion on spoiler inclusion and exclusion lately or the new template carefully, I reverted my edit so that we don't have a direct contradiction. However, I would like to discuss the issue of what constitutes an official source more, and will do so on the spoiler policy (proposed) discussion page. I personally think we should be a little looser about what qualifies personally, but as always, just want to poke around and see what the consensus is first, and will go by whatever that is decided to be. --PandoraX 10:51, 18 January 2007 (PST)

  • OK, I gotcha Dagg. I tried to make it clear in my note in the spoiler discussion page that it didn't single you out as someone who had to defend that stance, and that you were just trying to reflect current policy (which I guess is debated now). I guess we'll just discuss this stuff more, as we do everything on lostpedia, LOL. --PandoraX 11:12, 18 January 2007 (PST)

Past/Present Policy

I think the policy you mentioned needs revising. An awful lot of people would side with me that present tense is the best way to display the synopsis of episodes. --THE MONSTER 11:26, 19 January 2007 (PST)

Can we get some closure on this issue? Is there any way to have a Lostpedia-wide vote? I'll post something on Admin's discussion page. Obviously, we need a group concensus. David 11:38, 19 January 2007 (PST)

RE:Implementation of Quotes

  • Thanks a lot, I'm glad you like it. Some characters are harder to think up quotes for (I mean, Jin's gonna be impossible!) but Ive just so far added those which I think represent what the character went through in the season the quote refers to. For example, Locke's season 2 quote goes really well with what he went through in that season. It's going to be hard to do everyone, involving going through transcripts and the like, but it's all good fun. --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  03:12, 20 January 2007 (PST)

Thanks. That Captain Insaino guy is a real jerk. --THE MONSTER

Help

  • Hey, I know your good at templates and infoboxes and stuff like that. So I thought I would ask you this question. I want to modify the Template: Infobox Dubbing Actor to allow for 2 or more characters to be added to the character section if needed. As some dubbers do more than one character such as Claudio Serrano (Liam and Desmond). However the current template does not allow you to enter more than 1 character and have it link to both their pages. Is there a way to change the template to allow this without having to remove the [[ & ]] from the character section (only way I can think of) which would mean each voice actor page would be changed. Thanks--Mr.Leaf 14:14, 20 January 2007 (PST)
  • Thanks, that works sort of. I removed the Character3 and Character4 because when they were there a big gap was left even if all 4 character spots were or weren't filled between them and the language part. It would be good to have them but at the moment I don't think we have any voice actors who have 3 roles so if we do I will look into going back and adding it in (and possibly fixing the gap thing). But the concept does work, thanks again.--Mr.Leaf 14:39, 20 January 2007 (PST)
  • Ya, that doesn't really work either, i tried it out, it makes all the character names on the same line (or lines if longer), with no spaces between them. But it doesn't really matter, we only need 2 for now. Thanks again.--Mr.Leaf 14:51, 20 January 2007 (PST)

Quote Poll

Do you know how long the quote poll will go on for? THE MONSTER .

Sigh. The way it's going at the moment I don't reckon there'll ever be a definate opinion. THE MONSTER .

Quick table ?

Hey Dagg, saw you were online, and I forget what the code is for this... how do you h-align the words in the first column of the characters table I made for Bad Twin? Thanks a bunch. --PandoraX 09:16, 23 January 2007 (PST)

  • Many thanks, Dagg, the last was what I was looking for. --PandoraX 09:59, 23 January 2007 (PST)

Quotes in Articles(proposed)

Hey, I just wanted to make sure you understand there's nothing personal at stake here. The only reason I'm bringing it up here was a slight misquote, that I'm concerned might be a little freudian. I didn't say "what are you trying to fix...", I said "What are we trying to fix by pushing for these changes". The difference is minor, except that I don't want you to feel singled out. Sorry if I was unclear. I think you've had a solidly positive impact on Lostpedia since you got here, and I certainly didn't mean to make a personal attack. I'm not even sure you read it that way, but I thought I'd drop a note just in case. Thanks! -BearDog 15:53, 23 January 2007 (PST)

Custom TOC for Bloopers page

Hey there Dagg, oh great collaborator of all things wiki... what do you think of Jabbr's comment here: Lostpedia:Featured_Article_Selection#Bloopers_and_continuity_errors. I agree with him, and suppressed the TOC. However, I experimented with a few ideas for a custom TOC, but they didn't turn out the way I was hoping. I was wondering if you had any suggestions... something like a custom horizontal TOC? Especially one where we wouldn't constantly have to update it if people were adding more subheadings. Just thought I'd ask to see if you knew of any easier answers, not asking you to do all the work for this. I'm happy to take on the project if you can point me to the resources or examples. Don't waste your time on it if you are in the middle of something else. --PandoraX 20:03, 23 January 2007 (PST)


Re

I appreciate what you're saying, but look at it from the perspective of working on those episode articles for a matter of months. I understand completely about not taking credit for your own work having worked on here for a good while, but the fact that the reason we started rewriting was because we all agreed episode guides were our biggest weakness against ABC and Lost Wikia, but no-one was willing to do anything about it. Consequently, me and a couple of ideas decided to do it ourselves and have done. Thus, I just think its a bit of a cheek to then come along and change things without at least giving an opportunity for those actually involved to have their two cents. Also, I think I've sworn twice since I've been here on Lostpedia, so you can appreciate therefore that I must be pretty annoyed (and within my rights to be show I think) to break my usual good restraint. And I don't mean to come across as arrogant, just annoyed --Nickb123 (Talk) 07:02, 25 January 2007 (PST)

The thing is though that I actually agree with a past tense manual of style, just not in episodes. For everything else yes, for character biographies even as you're looking at a character's life from the current airdate point of view. However, episodes should be of their time, meaning there shouldn't be spoilers that Sun can actually speak English in the Pilot synopsis, and it should be from the angle that an episode review is assuming the reader is only up to said episode in their viewing. Therefore, it should be a story of what happens next than "we saw this..." Basically, I think though our main episode article problem is that some writers are better than others in expression, and while I don't want to offend anyone and I myself might be a poor writer (I can't judge my own work), its a real problem. To be honest, at the moment I'm starting to lean on the idea of doing what we do with the transcripts, having a set writer(s) - even though I realise the idea goes against the wiki. We do definitely need a separate MoS for episode guides or a separate subheading, as there's a number of conflicts with consistency. I might work on one (ignoring the tense issue) and present it --Nickb123 (Talk) 07:30, 25 January 2007 (PST)
P.S. I've unprotected Talk:Season 2 if you still need it. Next time, just drop me or another SysOp a note, I think it'll get you a faster response than on that request page. Thanks, --Nickb123 (Talk) 14:58, 25 January 2007 (PST)

Thanks

  • Thanks, I'm glad we have someone here who understands exactly how everything works and can fix those sort of problems. Mr.Leaf 16:35, 26 January 2007 (PST)

Huge Merged Templates

Dagg, I'm not sure I'm such a fan of this. I think it's getting too ambitious with the nav templates--because there are clearly going to be many articles that overlap, and to me, that's ok. For example, Flight 815 gets mentioned on Oceanic's template, on events, on other things... I don't see what the problem is. There are objects used by DHARMA that are going to end up on the objects template and the DHARMA one, and maybe on the Others' one as well. For me, I just add one template that is most specific or applicable, and leave it. I think for the themes cat, there will be one or two that overlap with both Science template, Analysis/Storyline templates, but that's not necessarily one that has to be corrected. If we did that, eventually we'd have one supertemplate just called "LOST", and it would take half the article page. --PandoraX 03:54, 27 January 2007 (PST)

  • The thing is, I don't think we need this definition for what *has* to be categorized as one or the other. Very frequently, things fall into two or more categories (which is why they have multiple categories at the bottom). In general, almost ALL articles on lostpedia could almost qualify as "lists"... because they are encyclopedic, we tend to list all mentions of the subject. In my mind, things that deserve to be on lists/tallies are more the misc. items that don't qualify as well-developed (such as bars, careers, etc... not going to be a ton of analysis). Because it is so arbitrary and categories often overlap, I think we should just leave them on multiple templates (and leave one template at the bottom, to minimize confusion, except for crossover FB chars). That's my opinion, at any rate. If you look at rebirth and then look at logos, they are two very different types of articles... one is looking at deeper analysis of a theme of the show, whereas the other is a simple tally for the hardcore fan that likes trivia. --PandoraX 05:34, 27 January 2007 (PST)
  • PS: THe only reason I didn't add Miracles to the themes template was because I thought there was already significant coverage through similar pages such as coincidences and healing properties, which link back to miracles. However, I see no problem with adding it also. I don't think it's a bad thing if not *every* applicable article gets linked to every template. The more important thing is that we give the reader a good overview of the category in question, and a representation of similar articles of interest. --PandoraX 05:39, 27 January 2007 (PST)
  • Sorry to say, but I also reverted your edits to simple list form of imprisonment and rebirth. I understand and agree with converting to simple chronology in some cases, but in some cases, subcategories are for a reason (with chronology WITHIN those cats), because they add information. For example, to me, it makes more sense to separate out quotes for rebirth from the literal rescuscitations, from symbolic "misc" cats... all very different, but all references. To give another example, could you imagine if someone did this for the religion and ideologies page? Yes, admirable that they would take the time to arrange everything by crossref date, but useful for the common lostpedia user? No. It would read like a mess of text. It makes more sense the way it is now, organized by individual religions. --PandoraX 05:54, 27 January 2007 (PST)
  • I totally agree that the reorganizing by chronology is good for some pages, just those in particular I strongly disagree on... they take out valuable information, and condense everything into the same format, when they're very different types of references. I'm not against the reformating in general, I am just saying that we should be selective about them. We have to consider that the average Lostpedian is not going to be like us... instantly know that a certain event was from "Maternity Leave", which is 2x15, which is following 2x12, etc... we're the weirdo geeks that love that kind of stuff :) Most people will just remember... "Oh, that's about Claire. She's the pregnant chick, right?" Subcats help people like that, otherwise they just read as nondescript blocks of text. ALso, many themes don't flow straight through, but follow individual arcs and subplots. My belief is to define the subcats first, and THEN use chronology within them (see flashback characters for an example; rebirth, religions, character connections and imprisonment also work that way). --PandoraX 06:39, 27 January 2007 (PST)
  • Yeah, that's not too bad a compromise, I think. I just hope you will consider what we are actually gaining when we condense to episode-chronology all the time... sometimes we're losing substance to the page. --PandoraX 09:13, 27 January 2007 (PST)
  • It's just my opinion that that section makes the most sense as it is, and has the least redundent. At any rate, you can start a discussion on the talk page if you don't like it, and I'll go with the consensus if more agree with you, but I don't like the proposed change personally. --PandoraX 10:33, 27 January 2007 (PST)

The simple lists

  • The thing is, Dagg, you make a lot of major changes to articles without any kind of discussion. I brought up above the pros and cons of simple lists. I think it is a very good idea for some pages, but for others, you're actually deleting info that others put up. For example, in the simple list, what if someone wants to find out more about mousetrap or chess? In the old format, people could simply scroll through alphabetically and find the listing easily. What exactly is the advantage of the simple list, when you can't see which episodes, for instance, that golf is referenced in? I recall this was actually something that came up when we were playing a game on another site, and I was glad that LP had that; now that info is not easily referenced. You can see where you changed the page for animals, and it basically reverted back to the more complex form, because people naturally want to know more about every individual reference. --PandoraX 19:55, 2 February 2007 (PST)
  • Dagg, a week is really not a long time for LP; that page was also in its former state for half a year without any complaints about the format before you changed it a week ago. Sometimes a consensus doesn't develop for over a month. A little patience goes a long way there. I know you did work with the AA on the Animals page, and I think it looks good, but my point is not the actual edits, but that the format of the simple list does not work for every page (I used the example religion before). In the case of games, I agree that we don't need detailed accounts of what every game is about, but you oversimplified it too much, IMHO. Axis & Allies, Connect Four, Chess and Mousetrap are all interesting games references, and some of the rules do have lost relevance (in much the same way as we often give song lyrics on song pages, or a brief synopsis on book pages). I agree that one shouldn't get carried away with non-Lost details that are referenceable to wikipedia (which is why Art got cut down), but there's nothing wrong with a brief intro in subsections. --PandoraX 21:00, 2 February 2007 (PST)
  • I reverted those edits because I'm someone who uses and edits that page, not because I'm a sysop; I have reverted similar changes before I was one (and had them done to me, in return). I've never pulled that card when doing an edit, so I'm not sure why it's getting brought up now. I simply think the article was actually easier to use and find information on before, so yes, I got frustrated when I see every page on lostpedia get converted to the "simple list" format indiscriminently (despite having left my opinions on taking it on a case-by-case basis on the talk page above), but I apologize if it seemed hasty. You said:
"If you disagree with something, then please add a note on the discussion page and ask for consensus. Please do not whole-sale revert the changes made to an article simply because you have a difference in opinion. "
...but isn't this what you did (drastic changes to a standing article with no discussion)? There are others on lostpedia besides you and I. I haven't even made that many edits to the games page, but I liked some of the ones others made in the past. People like Senor Eko and Peephole aren't around to give their opinions over the hiatus, but that edit just erased a lot of the info they added. I just think that some of these changes that are being made over the hiatus aren't additive to the substance of the article (and in some cases, subtractive), trading function for a slick form. I just don't think ordinary LP users would want to scroll through a big block of chronologically ordered text to find particular games; it's much easier to find them alphabetically. At any rate, that's just my opinion, and I'm willing to look for some sort of compromise, maybe something along the lines of the animals page. As far as these sorts of edits go, I do value your opinions--you clearly have a lot of knowledge about the show and about wiki editing (more than I, for the latter), and you've made many invaluable contributions in the past, such as with templates. I hope you don't take this sort of stuff that personally, I just feel more patience is needed before making such drastic organizational changes to over 20 articles--just because people don't say anything after a week doesn't mean that everyone agrees it's an improvement. --PandoraX 04:39, 3 February 2007 (PST)
  • Yeah, I think holding off before we try to work out some sort of compromise might be a good way to go, too. We can see how the AA on Animals works out, and maybe do a similar format? That will help give some uniformity at least to two pages. I don't think we'll ever be able to make all the themes have the same feel, because each one is a little different. And I don't think all themes work in an entirely linear manner as far as plotline, I think they're often multi-radial plot arcs that don't develop linearly. At any rate, waiting will give a chance for others to give feedback, too, though I suspect in a few days, the site is just going to be buzzing with new episode additions. Cheers, Dagg, don't take offense to my disagreement, and I'm sorry if my quick revert caused us to bump heads, I consider you a valuable editor and member of the community and hope you don't get too disillusioned... boldness is good sometimes, but big wikis like this often err on the side of stasis with major changes when there's controversy (quotes debate was an example), but it's a community and we have to learn to find some common ground. I am an opinionated person, but I try not to let my pride get in the way of friendships or productivity here. --PandoraX 14:38, 3 February 2007 (PST)
  • On a more positive collaborative note, I've been wondering if there is any way to categorize automatically by something other than first letter; for example: adding [[Category:Producers]] to the bottom of Damon Lindelof will cat him by first name, and we have to go back and add [[Category:Producers|Lindelof, Damon]] manually. Similarly, literary works won't ignore "The" and "A" in the title automatically when categorizing. Any ideas on this? --PandoraX 14:38, 3 February 2007 (PST)
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