Talk:The Monster/Archive 2

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Talk:The Monster


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Contents

Let's not get carried away...

After this recent episode we know a lot more about the monster but let's not go about assuming its intentions and true behavior. At best we should stick to describing what was shown to us while leaving personal interpretation to the reader. For example, the article said that the monster attempted to kill Locke. There's no proof of this or even strong evidence. The monster tried to drag Locke into a hole. One can't say for sure that it was going to kill him. Similarly, while there may be strong evidence that Yemi was a manifestation of the monster in some way, we should also keep such statements ambiguous because he just don't know for sure. --Eleo 21:23, 1 November 2006 (PST)

I think we can start assuming that the Yemi visions are the monster, if anything can be said for certain it's that, and it's not going to be made clearer. --Sauron18 15:09, 2 November 2006 (PST)
Except that Yemi was previously seen in Eko and Locke's dreams. The Yemi in the latest episode was a tangible figure. (Possible argument; I don't really care.) Tebor 15:18, 2 November 2006 (PST)
That's exactly why. Remember the comment the producers said of having seen the monster before after the 23rd psalm but not recognizing it? I think it was soo heavily implied in the episode that it's really never going to be as clear as it was. --Sauron18 16:07, 2 November 2006 (PST)
The simple fact that Locke actually saw Yemi is proof that it was the monster's doing, since Locke had never seen or met Yemi before. --Noseman 2006 10:08, 4 November 2006 (CET)
How do we know Locke never met Yemi? Future flashbacks might say differently =P

Whoa!

Why is there a really big and unnecessary image of it at the top? I know it looks cool, but let's shrink and put it somewhere else! --Blueeagleislander 23:38, 1 November 2006 (PST)

Anachronism

IF the monster is technologically based, why are the computers and other technology in the hatches so old and outdated? I know the idea that it is nanotechnology was debunked, but this is a relatively new & developing concept, and any attempt to explain it in tech speak leaves a big gap between the equipment in the hatch and the 'security system.' Just something to keep in mind. --Moo 09:25, 2 November 2006 (PST)

  • Maybe it was created long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away... ;-D --Amberjet11 09:33, 2 November 2006 (PST)

Monster Issues

So i guess we can take it that the Monster not only can take different forms, but that it tailors them to the person(s) to which it appears.

Locke saw a bright and beautiful light. Eko saw the The Smoke Monster and possibly Yemi Kate would therefore see the horse but strangely so did Sawyer, who saw it before her.

So it might well take on a general 'physical' form rather than tapping into the mind of the viewer and just altering their perception of it. But this is by no means proved by the facts.

On top of this the Monster might be masquerading as a member of the losties... first thought this when Desmond was wandering around in the forest and then became suspicious of Hurley's appearance in the same episode.. now magically laden with supplied he didn't leave the Dock with and also his appearance we proceeded with that errie noise which prompted Locke's attack with the knife.

I think Desmond could now be excluded as he was with the team in the Pearl when the attack on Eko took place... So where does that leave Hurley.. we are supposed to be suspicious of him now coz of Locke's dream... :S

and also i just noted that Hurley seemed concerned that Locke was getting a party together and not working alone to goto the hatch and help Eko.. and not going it alone like Jack would.. is this because the monster prefers to work one on one.. and why is dissappears when Locke gets close to it when its going after Eko?

If the Monster could impersonate Yemi so realistically couldn't it also be replacing, using or controlling Hurley in some way.

And as just a thought.. is the monster acting as a 'Hand of God'? Striking down the bad and saving the good? Thats a bit of dodgy ground that i think that US TV would stay well away from ;)

  • Why? If there's any issue that needs to be adressed today, it would be the complicatedness of religion and the idea of a universal good and bad. Besides, religion/faith is already as far as I'm concerned a major theme of the series. --Noseman 2006

a quick add to this.. Ben mentions God bringing a spinal surgeon to him in his hour of need.. if the monster is the hand of god.. did it have a hand in the break up of the plane and safe arrival of the sections to the island, maybe saving whole sections for the 'good' people on board.. which would be Bernard and Jack it seems :)

--MRNasher

Theories -- separate article?

Since the theories about the Monster can spin exponentially, I suggest the theories section be moved to its own article. It'll also make it that much easier to rewrite, IMHO. --Amberjet11 07:47, 3 November 2006 (PST)

I agree. In the case of the Monster it would be a good idea to physically separate fact from speculation. --Noseman 2006 10:19, 4 November 2006 (CET)
I concur!!! There are some subcategories that could be added within the Theories section that would make it clearer. For example:
  • Regarding the nature of the "Monster"
    • Purposes
      • Security System
      • Acts on its own
      • Controlled by someone
      • Creature of God
    • Material composition
      • Electromagnetic/Metallic
      • Metaphysical
    • Behavior
      • Emotion-based
      • Rational-based
      • Erratic-based
    • Other theories
  • Regarding the appearance of the "Monster"
    • Shape-Shifter
      • Jack's Father
      • Hurley's bird
      • Hurley's Dave
      • Kate's Horse
      • Eko's brother
      • etc....
  • Putting the pieces of the "Monster" together
    • This section should really be merged with the others. I do not see it standing on it's own.

PS: I'm new around the wiki world so feel free to express if this is the contribution you expect. I want to desperately jump in the Theories section to clean it up but I don't feel confident I'm in the right direction.--EvilSmoke 17:56, 6 November 2006 (PST)

Right now there's some discussion of moving all theories to separate pages, see here: Lostpedia talk:Theory policy. I wouldn't make any big moves before that is decided. Fact and speculation should already be separated (although it's on the same page). There should be nothing but facts above the Theories heading, if there is questionable stuff there it should be moved or removed. --Minderbinder 05:24, 7 November 2006 (PST)

I like the outline for the subcategories within the theories page. In the shape-shifter section, it would probably also be worth noting when one character can see another's personal manifestation (Sawyer seeing Kate's horse; Sawyer seeing the Hurley Bird; Shannon and Sayid both seeing Walt; etc.). --Amberjet11 13:00, 8 November 2006 (PST)

religious based theories

There are a lot of theories involving the monster which use religious argumentation. These theories are not concentrated on one aspect of the monster but are spread throughout the theories section. They are being constantly rebuked as not reality-based and cite that the authors have said that "everything can be explained by science". First of all, is this really true, have the authors discredited everything which is non-science? Second, what do we do with all the arguments that cite religion as base? If the authors have made such claim, should we delete all of the religious stuff? If the authors have not, should we delete all the rebukes? Could we place a single "disclaimer" saying that religious stuff should be taken with care (is not scientific) and spare these comments everywhere else? --EvilSmoke 17:44, 6 November 2006 (PST)

  • I'd say there is a thin and intriguing line between religion and the science of Lost. The Valenzetti Equation is another example of a Lost-phenomenon that has one foot in each domain. What if "God" could be explained scientifically (as in "science fiction-scientifically"), by, say, this equation? It would both prove that religion is more than just faith, but it would also make irrelevant all religion (since you don't need faith to have knowledge). In other words: If God really existed, there would be no need for religion. --Noseman 2006 19:47, 7 November 2006
    • The problem with that is you're restricting 'really existing' to the emperically verifiable, and yes, if all was empirically verifiable, there would be no religion. It's called "begging the question", wherein one puts the conclusion to the arguement (God doesn't exist/only the empirically verifiable exists) in the premise of the arguement. Anyway, back to the show, I don't think Lost will have a religious explanation, but I think we should not be putting philosophy (either empiricist or Christian or otherwise) into the Wiki's contents. Phrases that say things like 'cannot be Christian because it is not based in reality' should be scrapped. --Best thing since xfiles 08:14, 9 November 2006 (PST)
  • I think what I was trying to say was that we might need to separate the theories from the interpretations... --Noseman 2006 19:49, 7 November 2006
    • Until such time as somebody does perform this separation, can we please delete the annoying "this is a religion-based concept and must be discredited" posts? For the reasons stated above, they are annoying and not necessarily true.

No believable explination for the Monster

I just can not come up with an explanation for the smoke monster that I can find not lame. Paranormal manifestation of a person's true nature...might as well bring out the zombies and aliens. It was once said that everything on the island was based on science or at least pseudo-science. If the monster is paranormal and that counts as psuedo-science, then you are right back to everyone on the island are ghosts and the frigg'n Purgatory theory. By having the monster be "Magic Black Pixie Dust" the show lost a lot of its credibility with me. I'd rather have had the monster be a giant pissed of giraffe.--ASEO 08:07, 7 November 2006 (PST)

I'm actually thinking they won't explain it...

--- Beeth 10:35, 9 November 2006 (PST)


Scott/Steve

Is it possible that the monster, and not Ethan killed Scott/Steve? From what we saw it do to Eko, it seems that it may have been the culprit. I can't remember if Ethan says anything that confirms that he killed Scott/Steve.--ASEO 12:32, 16 November 2006 (PST)

Anything's possible. I think it's more likely that Ethan killed him, as he stated the intentions and a timeline, and then a body was found. Besides, we've never seen the Monster anywhere but the jungle. It seems to prefer the trees. Even when it killed Eko, it lured him out of a clearing and into a wooded area. I'm not sure the Monster can go to the beach. -BearDog 12:40, 16 November 2006 (PST)
  • I thought the every bone in his body was broken, and the fact that many now believe the monster to be a shapeshifter (and several strange appearances have been made on the beach) might tend to point to the monster.--ASEO 12:45, 16 November 2006 (PST)


Link to Stephen King again which I havent noticed on the Stephen King page of Lostpedia

The sound was something they worked very hard on and spent alot of time looking for just the right sound which I believe is actually a reciept printer from a taxi cab. Hearing this lead me to think there is a link between the monster and the "doctor bugs" or "Cam Tam" from Stephen Kings book The Little Sisters of Eluria which make a similar sound.

The Cam Tam are tiny little beetle type things which are closely related to vampires (many have said the smoke monster could be a soul harvester type thing which isnt too dissimilar an idea though its not a theory I hold with) they work together as one sentient being and they heal but they can also kill. Could "the monster" be a similar type thing? --Hotgirl 21:39, 6 January 2007 (PST)

Rename

The Monster is always referred to as the Monster, black smoke, smoke monster, security system, etc. The speech marks are unnecessary as The Monster is its title for the time being. Proposed rename to The Monster. --SilvaStorm


Agree - quote marks are silly. We didn't use them for Benry whyen he was Henry, did we? We didn't use them for Eyepatch Man before he was MikhailRMlives 14:38, 27 March 2007 (PDT)RMlives
Agree --James W. 13:21, 27 January 2007 (PST)
Wait - I agree in principal, but we might find out more about it soon so maybe we should just wait a bit. --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 13:54, 27 January 2007 (PST)
Never --Princess Dharma What makes a 'monster' a monster? There are no such things a monsters and other commonly spoken phrases. The writes have NEVER refered to 'the monster' as the monster in public. It would be very wrong to rename this article.
Are you kidding me? They always call it the monster in public - interviews, podcasts, etc. What else are they to call it? --SilvaStorm
O.K bad argueing on my part. Even though they call it this they make the point that they only do so because there is nothing else to call it without giving too much away about it. It isnt a monster. It's kinda cute. Princess Dharma
Yes, of course it is, but the page for the man with the eyepatch is called Patchy, and I'm sure that isn't his real name. Same thing goes for the likes of Otherville, etc. --SilvaStorm
Sure, go ahead. --SilvaStorm
They call it "Frank" jokingly on one of the audio commentaries, but most of the time it's referred to as the monster --Blueeagleislander 00:44, 6 February 2007 (PST)
Agree (qualified) Although I think 'the smoke monster' seems to be the more common officialish name used by producers now. If there's this much debate about the quotes maybe the article naming conventions policy should be clarified. I think the argument comes down to whether it's a descriptive reference name or it's a nickname used in the show itself. I feel it's more of a descriptive name, like 'man wearing red shoes' and therefore doesn't need the quotes as long as there's a redirect. But I think 'the smoke monster' is a better name at this point. --Jackdavinci 16:08, 19 February 2007 (PST)
  • Do not rename - not until we have a specific name for it. There's no notable difference between ''monster'' and monster other than the parenthesis. They both mean the exact same thing, the parenthesis signify uncertainty, which is appropriate considering how little we know about it. Renaming the article would just bring more work without a good cause. --Gateboy42 14:44, 26 February 2007 (PST)
  • Rename as per SilviaStorm's reasoning. A name is what we call it. If it's given a more specific name later (Cerberus, e.g.) we'll rename it that then. All the quotation marks just get in the way. Robert K S 03:36, 27 February 2007 (PST)
  • No. We don't even know what the monster is. It is better to keep the speech marks until we have a full name or explanation for it.
Agree Its official name as of now is the Monster... it's the name the producers always use for it as well as the characters. Whether or not it is actually a monster in the traditional sense is irrelevent... until we discover its actual name, The Monster is the official term used for it, and thus quotations aren't nessecaary. - ArchangelRJ
Agree It really doesn't make any sense to call it 'The "Monster"' as opposed to 'The Monster', because The Monster is truly what it is, until we find out otherwise. So, as Archangel said, its official name as of now is The Monster and that's what the Producers and Characters call it. That's why Mikhail was originally called Patchy, on the site, so why can't we change this for the same reason? Kbmusiclover 7:50 A.M., March 10 2007 (PST)
Agree It should only be called the Monster. "Monster" also means it could be called the security system, and that has not yet been confirmed. The scenes for next week's episode show a large "fence" structure that could be the security system. Let him be just The Monster. [--pom5msu] [--talk] 20:54, 11 March 2007 (PDT)
  • As we said before, it's not a matter of it being an actual "monster" or not. The fact is, its name (for now) is the Monster, as that's what all the writers, all the characters, and the vast majority of fans call it (not like we matter though), so what it is exactly is irrelevant. With the Others, if they were solely refered to as "The Bad Guys", then that's what we would name them, however, they've never been called that by anyone on the show. Speaking of the Others, that brings up a great example. If you think about, the Others really aren't "others", at least not in the way the survivors originally came to perceive them, and their true collective name certainly isn't "The Others", as they expressed that they don't like being called that. And yet, we still use The Others as their name on here. Why? Because its, for now, the name that everybody uses for them: characters, writers, fans. No quotation marks are nessecary there, and thus neither are they nessecary for the monster. - ArchangelRJ
  • Keep the name until it is comfirmed to be something else, probably Cerebeus. I think the security system that Rousseau talks about is the one around the barracks, so that could eliminate that one. - Loop
  • Change to yes: ArchangelRJ made a great point -- Iron Man  Send a message  View contributions  15:26, 15 March 2007 (PDT)
  • Wait: ArchangelRJ, I disagree. Ultimately, it's irrelevant that the "monster" is the name that it has been given by people involved with Lost. The fact that all of these people call this thing the "monster" can be just the proliferation of a misnomer, with origins in lines spoken in the first episodes by characters that were largely uninformed. At this point, "Monster" is just not an official name, clarified by anything we have seen on the show or in its media. The "Others" is another example of the ambiguity in names, and you note that yourself. The Monster is the same deal - what we can only name as the Monster from our limited season 3 perspective should not be taken as canon-like fact. --Puppyfury -- talk -- contributions 03:53, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
    • All that is beside the point. A thing is named what we call it. Are quotes necessary for Hurley Bird? Robert K S 08:12, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
      • No, because no one was quoted on having said "Hurley Bird". Hurley Bird was named as such because it is the only thing we could attribute to that thing. The "Monster" is in another realm of familiarity, despite the fact that it is as mysterious to us as the bird is. We can debate the semantics of whether the Monster is a common enough name, but it doesn't change the fact that, officially and in the context of the island, it's not a "monster". -- Puppyfury -- talk -- contributions 21:23, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
        • Officially, and in the context of the island, it's not a Hurley Bird. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the name "Hurley Bird" came from a podcast by Damon & Carlton, and they've called the black smoke security system the Monster, too. Robert K S 12:18, 18 March 2007 (PDT)
  • Agree We're splitting hairs, but I believe this is a good move. If a Lostpedia viewer wants to find the article they are more than likely going to type "The Monster" into the search bar, npot "The "Monster""   Hooper   talk    contribs    email   07:48, 21 March 2007 (PDT)
  • Agree
  • Agree Most people call it the monster, it's more general. Until we get a more specific name (which I predict we will (in Season 5)), just have it w/out quotes.--Berethor222 20:43, 25 March 2007 (PDT)

HURRY UP AND RENAME ALREADY :), The charactors are calling it The Monster now, most of us agree it should be called the monster, the producers call it the monster, so lets rename the article to "The Monster"! -- Iron Man  Send a message  View contributions  14:13, 29 March 2007 (PDT)

Yeah.. Nikki got changed to Nikki Fernandez in like 2 seconds after like 3 votes but this one takes twenty votes and 3 months and counting....--Jackdavinci 14:44, 29 March 2007 (PDT)
Done, although the Nikki situation is a little different but there is no need to argue that. -Mr.Leaf 19:15, 29 March 2007 (PDT)
Glad that's finally over and done with. If you guys don't mind, I took the liberty to remove all the quotation marks from the article as well. While I don't think we need to go on a witch hunt into every article to change remove from the quotations elsewhere, I would recomend that, should you guys see a page with monster in quotation marks, you remove them, just to keep consistancy. However, a recent spoiler I found out may make this change short-lived. SPOLIER ALERT - According to the producers, the Monster will be returning in the next episode, presumibly as Kate and Juliet are running through the jungle. Now since Juliet is an Other, and presumibly knows more about the Monster than the survivors, it's possible that she'll reveal the Monster's name as Cerberus, in which case we'll have another debate on our hands as to whether or not to rename the article (again). For now, we should defiently wait it out and see what we find out in the next episode before we start to debate, but I would recomend thinking about it over the next week. ....--ArchangelRJ
I doubt the others have any real clue as to whats going on, they are in fact the veiwers of LOST and are just as LOST as we are. Just a theory of mine :) -- Iron Man  Send a message  View contributions  13:04, 31 March 2007 (PDT)

New appereance

Does anyone know when the monster is going appear again? I haven't saw him since The Cost of Living

========

New Solution ?!

I think we saw the monster as the inside of the "Box" in "The Man from Tallahassee" - John Locke was scanned by the Monster, as Mr. Eko was, too. The Monster returned as Mr.Ekos Brother Yemi in "The cost of living" and returned as Lockes Father in "The Man from Tallahassee" - The Monster represents the greatest Wish and Fear of each person, so the "Box" does, too. (Dennis Wiermann aka SuperFury)

Is the Monster controlled by Ben?

In "The Man From Tallahassee," one can assume that the box Ben is reffering to is the monster. Earlier in that episode, Ben asks John Locke if he would like to see the box, because anything you can imagine will appear in it. Who is there? Why, its Locke's dad, Anthony Cooper! In the episode "Expose," we see Juliet and Ben appear in The Pearl, and good old Paulo is listening to their conversation. Ben says that he will get Jack to perform the spinal surgery by finding what he cares about the most and exploiting it, which Ben does by capturing Sawyer and Kate. After this, the Monster kills Mr. Eko by making him believe his brother is on the island. The Monster also makes Hugo "Hurley" Reyes see his imaginary friend, Dave (Hurley's friend) from the health institute. Mr. Eko brother, Yemi leads him to a spot where he can easily die, and Hurley's imaginary friend tells Hurley to jump off a cliff and kill himself. Hurley was confused, but loved his friend, but he wasn't real. Locke wanted revenge on his father, but later he ran away and Locke hasn't seen him since. I would greatly consider these all "weak points" in their lives, where, if exploited, could make them do things they would have never imagined. Ben, and the Others, could somehow be controlling this Monster. I don't know any way possible, but a Monster roaming around on an island doesn't make sense either. This is just a thought, but by putting two and two together this make somewhat logical sense. Romulan248

Ben tried to deceive John Locke into NOT pushing the button. The monster/island, when in Yeni's form, led Eko to believe he SHOULD push the button. Ben and the monster seem to work for antagonizing forces within the island. bloodcandy

True, but we all know from "The Man from Tallahassee" that Ben can easily convince people to do his dirty work. He told Locke not the blow up the submarine, but really Ben wanted him to do it. Ben wants to cut off all communication from the Island, and the Pearl had a communication system, as we found out when Michael sent messages to the captured Michael. And I do not recall the Monster having anything to do with Mr. Eko and Yemi (together) in Season 2, when Locke pressed the button. I believe that Mr. Eko had his own thoughts on trying to stop Locke from pushing that button, because he was a very faithful man. And besides, I was talking about when the Monster killed Mr. Eko directly in Season 3. Ben may have seen him as an interference in whatever his crazy plan is and decided to kill him through the Monster. Romulan248

If the monster is controlled by Ben why do they use the fence to protect themselves from it. HeWhoLaughsLast 23:32, 4 April 2007 (PDT)

We still don't know why for sure that fence is there. It could be to protect/warn the Others of many things, like the Tailies. Or perhaps the fence is there to catch wild animals and examine them, I don't know! But I don't think that it is there to protect them from the Monster. Also, "Left Behind" helps my theory even more. Ben obviously didn't want Juliet and Kate anymore. So perhaps instead of scaring the Ohters even more, he decided to dump them off in the jungle. After realizing that they weren't in their original spot anymore, he sent the monster out to go kill them. Romulan248

Monster in Expose

I don't think the noise before the spiders arrived in Expose were made by the monster as the newest revision of the article suggests. It's most likely a mixture of dramatic music and the noise of spiders crawling. Also in the most recent LOST podcast, Cuse says that the monster has not made an appearance for 8 episodes(probably referring to the Cost of Living). --Draven87 18:33, 30 March 2007 (PDT)

  • I don't think the spiders were supposed to really be the monsters, I think either the monster was off in the distance or Paulo was imagining the noise from the spider bite, but in either case, it was definitely the monster sound effect. It's very distinct. And hearing it doesn't really count as an "appearance". But's it's worth asking on the fuselage!--Jackdavinci 22:15, 30 March 2007 (PDT)

*rolls eyes* -- Iron Man  Send a message  View contributions  13:05, 31 March 2007 (PDT)

  • Let me point out that ABC's official synopsis confirmed that the noise was the Monster. ShadowUltra 11:17, 3 April 2007 (PDT)
    • The ABC synopsis material is not necessarly canon for the show. Dharmatel4 11:21, 3 April 2007 (PDT)
      • I know, I'm just pointing it out. ShadowUltra 20:06, 3 April 2007 (PDT)

Answers for the 'Unanswer questions'

one of the questions is...

  • Why do bamboo clusters offer protection from the Monster?

i say its just beacuse it cant make itself small enough to fit through the gaps

It has no problem smashing things though. How does something that knocks down trees get stopped by something it could knock aside. Dharmatel4 14:32, 5 April 2007 (PDT)
    • Just interesting trivia since I assume the Lost board game is not cannon, but according to it the Monster has "no effect" in any "hollow tree". warning: PDF --Jackdavinci 11:06, 11 April 2007 (PDT)

Lindelof on on the yahoo community monster question

Damon Lindelof: I think that there are bits and pieces that someone could put together. Recently Carlton and I put out to the Yahoo community all over the world, what do you think the monster is? And some people came alarmingly close to what its origins were, how it functions, what its purpose is, but they weren’t able to go the next level as Carlton says, deeper into saying, “That’s what it is but what does that mean in the grander scheme of what the island is.” It doesn’t mean that someone couldn’t accidentally back into it and anticipate something that they haven’t seen yet. But sort of the real hardcore intel about the island is going to start to reveal itself towards the end of the season as we learn more about the others.

The winning answer:

"I think the monster was originally a highly advanced security system designed to separate participants in the experimental Dharma hatches. I think it was an effect that was designed to frighten people (smoke, noise) if they strayed too far from their experiment location. (A bit Wizard of Oz like) However, the electromagnetic force has mutated it - in the same sense as Desmond experienced time travel and can now see the future after exposure - and made it malevolent and able to physically grab things in its force (Eko, the Pilot, Locke). So in theory it may be able to be deactivated, if they can find the control room for it (which would be another hatch somewhere yet undetected)."


On why they picked that answer as the winner:

“We were amazed at the imagination and prodigious creativity applied to answering the question, what is the monster? We have chosen our favorite answer.

Not that's it’s the right answer.

Sorry, but we can't really give away the ultimate secrets of the monster quite yet. The answer we selected might be somewhat right, totally right -- or completely off-base. But we liked it and found it very cool and intriguing. Thanks to everyone who took the time to write in. We loved reading your thoughts -- and thanks for watching!"

Dharmatel4 14:31, 5 April 2007 (PDT)

Manifestation

The text about appereance in the "White rabbit" should be removed, we don't even know if the monster manifests in human beings.

We do know it can manifest as people, however you are right that we don't know if all hallucinations are instances of the monster. --Sauron18 10:50, 7 April 2007 (PDT)
I don't we should just wipe it off the article, but it shouldn't get the same weight as scenes we have better confirmation of. It, Dave, Kate's horse, and the Hurley bird should probably get an honorary mention as phenomenon similar to the monster that are as of yet unconfirmed. --Jackdavinci 21:22, 7 April 2007 (PDT)

Elephant Noises?

Does anyone agree with me that in Left Behind, the monster sounded like an elephant? And, if anyone does agree, should somone add it? --Sykasa 10:52, 7 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree, and also that the sounds the monster made on this episode were generally very different to the normal sounds. I dunno if we should add it, though. --Sauron18 10:56, 7 April 2007 (PDT)

Locations

Can anyone plot the appearances of the monster on the best map of the island we have. I'd do it but cannot find many good maps and none with otherville in it.(Marcusjh 09:57, 9 April 2007 (PDT))

The only map we have from the actual show was made by Danielle before she met the Losties and does not include any of the important locations from the show. It's possible it prefers the "dark territory". It may also hang out near the "Cerberus vents" shown on the blast door map. It only seems to avoid the sonic barrier, the beach, and banyan trees.
Its also possible that there are at least two different monsters. The one in the dark territory behaved very differently from the one that seems to operate near the Pearl station. Danielle's comments seem to indicate that it guarding certain locations on the island (or perhaps an underworld beneith the island). Dharmatel4 19:41, 9 April 2007 (PDT)

Light and Dark

It is possible that the monster appears light (as Locke describes it) to those it considers 'good', and dark (as Eko, and most others, saw it) to those it considers 'bad'. The reason it flashed at Juliette could be that it was unable to decide whether she was good or bad, or perhaps it considers kate bad, but Juliette good, so couldn't pick one state to be in when confronted by both, or perhaps Juliette was considered bad, but is recently turning good.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Javallance (talk • contribs) .

The Smoke: Brains of the Island?

This is my new theory, and I think it's an interesting one. Imagine the island if you will, as an experiment in itself of the DHARMA initiative, more of a controled, precise construction than just an island that is playing hosts to scientists and smaller experiments, I mean with the hatches, the sonic fences, the huge magnetic activity, the button etc. Everything on the island seems very connected, interlinked. If so, the island may have a way of managing itself, a "programming", if you must, its' own initiative, it's own rules, things it must carry out. The other smaller, human based experiments just part of, or included, within this one larger project (possibly the spider protocol). Where does the the monster come into this? I think the monster may be the brains of the island, a "nucleus", the control factor. We see it coming from and going into holes all over the island, as if it is running through the island, like blood in a person, if you must. The monster immerging and interacting with / attacking people on this island may be taking place if something is done within the islands which is not part of its' plans. For example, if the button is not pushed, if the sonic pylons are turned on or off at the wrong times, if a something is changed within the hatches when it should not have changed, these could all be the kind of instances that trigger the smoke to immerge and destroy anything that may be threatening the plans of the island being carried out successfully, this would explain why there are not always fatalities when the monster immerges, it may have just come across Locke and Eko the first encounters, but the second time, they may have done or be intending to do something that was not part of the experiment. If the smoke is the brains of the island and the source of executions, decisions and control, this may explain why locke was able to see the islands plans, after he had looked into the island, and afterwards was being "told what to do by the island". Was the island using locke as a tool in this huge experiment? The magnetic atmosphere on the island could be the islands way of being able to breifly or strongly manipulate anything and anyone that is on the island. And finally, taking the idea much further than can be proven, maybe this control system (the smoke) became inteligent and over run the DHARMA initiative, developing instincts of its' own and carrying on this huge experiment on its' own, kind of like the mechanical arms did in spiderman 2, for those of you that have seen it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mathew65 (talk • contribs) .

Merge

White Rabbit

I, as well as several other viewers of this site, believe that White Rabbit should be added onto this list. I reinstated it for now, just so people could see what I'm referring to.

The similarities are obvious, and the producers heavily implied it during various interviews and podcasts. In fact, it is so hard not to connect the dots that it hurts a little bit.Quint

Let's take a vote... Keep, Seperate section, or Delete

  • Seperate section I think there should be a separate section named "unconfirmed Monster appearances" for things like Jack's dad, Kate's horse, the Hurley bird, etc. 1) Because the confirmed monster sighting should take precedence, 2) in this specific case of Jack's dad, I don't think there were any monster noises to clue us in and 3) there are some other phenomena in the show that could produce similar results - visions and dreams, Locke's vision questing and hallucinating paste, simple medical fatigue, psychic powers (ala Wet Walt)
  • Seperate section Producers also confirmed that Jacob is Him, yet we still have seperated articles.

False accusation?

While reading, I noticed the quote "Juliet pretends not to know anything about the Monster,". To the extent of my knowledge, there is no evidence that her not knowing what it is is false. The only thing I can think of that may be interpeted as such evidence is her knowledge of the fact that it didn't like the fence, which could just as easily be an assumtion based on what had just happened. --Angrygirrafe 17:15, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Well, she lied to Kate by making her think she had never encountered the monster nor had any idea what was up with it. --Sauron18 17:19, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
But where is the evidence that she was lying?--Angrygirrafe 17:35, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
That she knew the fence would stop it. She knew about the monster, while she had pretended to be shocked and amazed at seeing it, meaning she lied.--Sauron18 17:39, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
Or she expected the fence to protect them because it was a fence that killed whatever went through it. she didn't have to know about the monster to know that the fence was dangerous to everything.--Angrygirrafe 20:05, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
She admitted to Kate that she knew the monster didn't like their fences, meaning she admitted to have lied to her before.--Sauron18 20:09, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
Or she had just found it out. Read what has already been said before putting in your two cents.Insert non-formatted text here
She admitted to lying, she hadn't just found out. --Sauron18 20:58, 12 April 2007 (PDT)
I don't remember her admiting to lying about the monster, maybe she had been told that there was a monster and notified on how to stop it, but had never come across it before so therefore never knew what all those strange sounds in the jungle were at first. That's why she said "What the hell was that?!" --Magnet 05:57, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

Appearance in D.O.C.?!?!?

Did anyone else hear the rattling Smokey sound when Hurley set off the flare? --BiggSteve777 13:26, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

This might just have been a part of the music, which was suppose to sound 'creepy' and 'frightening'. BeŻet 14:22, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

The Monster screams Hurleys name?

If you watch this video then you'll hear something scream (screech) "Hurley!" so loud that Hurley will turn around to see where it came from. It's a clip from Exodus part 2. At first I thought it was the Hurley Bird, but now i'm not sure, because the Monster noises get somewhat quieter just before it screeches.

  • It is Hurley Bird, if you watch season 2 finale, it appears again, and you will hear it sounds excatly like in Exodus.

Kate, The Monster and the Pilot Episodes

When looking back over the pilot episodes, I noticed quite a few new things that I honestly believe could be important.

I noticed that Kate was constantly anxious to ask the other Losties if "they'd seen what it was" (referring to the Monster), although quite a natural question to ask given the circumstances, it's one of the only times I can recall where a single character has asked so many questions regarding a single entity in so little time. As we know, frustratingly, none of the characters seem to care enough to ask about anything about that goes on within the show!

I'm thinking that Kate may have seen something on the day of the crash regarding the Monster and in a typical movie "I must be crazy, so I should keep it to myself" manner, (Also a good writer's explanation for why a character keeps something quiet), she never told anybody, and was trying to get somebody to back her up before coming clean with what she saw.

Just before the Monster storms the beach on the first night, Kate starts to talk in a very solemn way about the "black smoke she saw just through the Valley".

There is also one more thing that is getting to me. On that very first night, when the monster is crashing about, the entire crew looks together in several different directions:

  • 1) First of all, they look towards the trees where the Monster appears to be
  • 2) Then a crash happens in the complete opposite direction and the cast looks towards it
  • 3) Another crash happens back in the original spot which is met by simultaneously cast action
  • 4) The cast stay looking at the original spot as the Monster makes the Siren noise and all goes silent

The writers had said previous that they had thought long and hard about the sounds to use for the monster on that night, and the cast were clearly given instructions about where to look. It also appears like the Monster is in at least two different places as it couldn't move that fast from area to area, especially as the trees are still being torn down in the original spot.

Terryjb 17:14, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Jabberwock

Maybe the monster is something like a Jabberwock. Definition from wikipedia: Jabberwock – A creature with jaws that bite, claws that catch, and eyes of flame. It probably lives in the woods, which is where the hero finds it, and can travel at considerable (whiffling) speed, and is also known for the burbling noise it makes.

--Helohe 08:13, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Abilities

There should now be a section added as to the monster's abilities. Namely that it has the ability to capture a person's thoughts and knowledge (like a photograph) and reproduce the image. Furthermore, all appropriate sections need to be updated to reflect this.Veridicum 00:03, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

Rename (Part 2)

Okay, i dont want to put this back up for debate but...

The Monster seems to have to officialish names: "The Black Smoke" and "The Monster". Viewers who arent really into the whole podcast thing (thereby probally just calling it as they see it, ie "The Black Smoke.") are more likely to enter "The Black Smoke."

How about it? -- Iron Man  Send a message  View contributions  10:49, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

No - Don't see any real reason for a rename to "The Black Smoke", I always called it the monster well before I started any of the research online etc. Also, "The Black Smoke" is kind of ambiguous due to the smoke signal rouseau discussed and then we saw.  ge0  Talk  contribs  14:38, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
No - A search for "The Black Smoke" takes you to a disambiguation page anyway, so folk will find it. Also, there is the possibility that The Monster can manifest in other forms, not just as black smoke. Renaming it would negate that option.--TechNic|talk|conts 15:31, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
No - We've had this discussion before: it's official name, as refered to by TPTB, the characters, and 90% of the fans, is the Monster. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ArchangelRJ (talk • contribs) .
No - Looks like a speedy keep as far as I'm concerned --Nickb123 (Talk) 15:19, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
No - Me, and everyone one I know, calls it The Monster. --Magnet 09:03, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Coincidence? Possible reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

The Great Smog of 1952 killed approximately 4,000 people in 4 days. A killer smoke? The soul of the great fog living on forever on the island?

I THINK SO!

Jamestwiz 14:08, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

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