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Is this a Blooper or is it on porpuse?

• In the "Recently on LOST" at the beginning of this apisode there is a replay of the scene where Locke enters Ben's tent and hears the tape from Juliet ("The Brig"). But in the original episode we see Locke entering the tent when he hears Juliet saying "he was sterile", instead in the replay it ends where she says "The fetus is healthy".

Is there any reason given they should re-arrange the scene? is there something they want to hide from us in the replay? --kremdelakrem 15:13, 27 May 2007 (PDT)

• • I do not have any specific examples, but this happens lots in the "previously on lost" clips. The editors are tasked with putting the best visual clips with the most important audible clips. Sometimes the two don't have the exact same timing.

Dood! Jacob's invisible!!!!

And Ben shot Locke!!!

• I am still in shock right now, this episode was crazy. Richard didn't even age either! :O Flippy 20:25, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Possible reasons why Jacob appeared to be invisible:

• Ben suffers from a form of schizophrenia that involves multiple personality disorder. Symptoms include hallucinations, hearing unexplained voices (whispers?), delusions, paranoia, and depression. Maybe Ben believes that Jacob exists or maybe he is aware of his condition but his controlling ego is not capable of remembering what his alter ego does or says while it is in control. This partitioning of memory between egos is a symptom of MPD.
• Jacob does exist, but John suffers from a psychological disorder that causes him to ignore what is in front of him.
• Jacob does exist, but has paranormal attributes. This could be consistent with some of the current island theories about ghosts and the whispers that everybody can hear.

--Rjtalbot 20:30, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• • I tend to agree with this theory, as someone (probably Jacob) can be seen briefy in the cabin scene, after Ben in thrown across the room. --Snooble 20:36, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
• Definitely one of, if not the best episode this season. It seems that Ben has the ability to see spirits of sorts (since he also saw his mother). Does anybody know what Locke was poking at outside of the house? It appeared to be either gunpowder or ash. Mithos 20:39, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• no i saw a picture of it slowed it down on my DVR and there is a clear image of what to me looks like a much older hairier john.
  • looking at the posted image in the Jacob article, i agree that it looks like Locke with a wig on Mithos 21:01, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• Jacob is in a fourth dimension - he's not there yet, but they can talk to him - or he's already been there and they are talking to his remnants - not so much a ghost as a piece of dissected time/space.--Brother 20:43, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

We're all in the fourth dimension. I recall from several sources that it is time. :) Although, giving you the benefit of the doubt, there is some controversy over it.    Mr Vain    talk    contribs    email   20:57, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• How about this for an idea...Jacob is Ben's imaginary friend that he never outgrew. Jacob is the one who put the idea in Ben's head to kill his father. Using this hypothesis, Ben is in SERIOUS need of some lithium! Belle42 21:19, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• The reason why Ben can see Jacob and Locke couldn't, is because unlike Locke, Ben actually did kill his own father. Ben doesn't know that Locke didn't kill his. --Danimal 22:17, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• The "invisible" Jacob sitting in the chair is momentarily seen by John Locke in this screengrab:

-- zissop 10 May 2007

• An enhanced version of the photo. What is this on Jacob's hair???

-- kflasch 9 May 2007

• Just after this shot, we see John staring at the chair, then we see a closeup of someone's eye. It doesn't look like either John's or Ben's, a fact which is supported by the apparent existence of longish hair down the left side of his face. If we assume he appears where Jacob sits, he stares and Ben, then looks over at John, at which point John flees from the room... I think the closeup of the eye is Jacob. Dgtljunglist 00:04, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• OK, hear me out on this one:

Jacob kinda looks and kinda sounded to me like John Terry.

The producers have said Christian is officially dead.

Afer the Yemi incident, theorists think Smoky was impersonating Jack's dad in White Rabbit.

Ergo, Smoky is Jacob.

That is, of course, just one idiot's theory! --Jeff 23:19, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• If you recorded the episode, check out 6 seconds after Locke says "You said 'Help Me'" after he hears Jacob talking to him. You see a clear shot (if only for an instant) of the smoke monster "sitting"/"floating" in the chair... well before Jacob actually appears. --Rezen 00:14, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Though the shadow on that chair does look odd, it's not the chair Jacob is in - it's a rocking chair with armrests, as opposed to a cushioned regular chair without. UpwardProgression 00:53, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
• not to be a bubble burster, but an alternative viewpoint may be warranted here if we are speculating. What some people are saying is Smokey sitting in the chair, I am interpreting as just a focal point defect of the flashlight projecting in the chair. Like the artifact created by the flashlight's reflector where the bulb is? Maybe? It looks to be about the right size, but it is late and I could be wrongo. --Frenkmelk 01:06, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • The black spot does indeed seem to come from the flashlight itself, because its position is fixed relative to the position of the whole projection, when he moves the flashlight slightly. When comparing the diameter of black spot with the diameter of the whole lighted area, it seems relatively bigger in the shot where he's lighting the chair, than in other shots. And the distribution of light in the particular shot seems different than that of the other shots. Might have something to do with the wall behind the chair being darker than the other things, but I doubt it. I think this shadow is just because they used a different flashlight for the shot with the chair, or they glued something onto the lens just to make it look mysterious. So, no invisible object in the chair casting a shadow. :) MiF86 03:11, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
• how do we know that Ben even saw Jacob? That could be why he was so angry. Ben was pretending to talk to Jacob to anger the restless spirit and get him to shake the shack and scare Locke. That's why Ben pretended Jacob didn't want Locke there, when it was obvious Jacob wanted Locke to help him. When Ben discovered that Jacob talked to Locke he was upset.--HAL4815162342 02:46, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I think it is worth noting that the person believed to be Jacob does not look like he has just pushed Ben to the wall (he looks rather static) -- this would imply that another, supernatural force hit him.--Stan 06:35, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• The frame here isn't the clearest, but in some "tweaked" captures (ie. check out YouTube) the shirt "Jacob" is wearing reminds me of a pre-20th/21st Century tunic or shirt. Maybe a shirt like a sailor would wear, someone from the Black Rock perhaps? Also, the hair looks longish at the sides, perhaps pulled back into pony tail? This may be my imagination running wild, but who knows with Lost? Magicalpath 20:56, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

• I think it is worth noting as well, so I spend lots o' nerdy time and noticed some more stuff frame-by-frame. You can see Jacob's hand for 2 frames, held out calmy like he's using the force. Look below:

--Duvfeatherdraven 00:43, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

• Another idea on Locke and Jacob

Having looked at this episode again I note that after Ben gets thrown back from Jacob's chair we get to see the flash of Jacob and then we cut to Locke who is not looking at Ben but straight at Jacob. Locke looks shocked and then goes out of the house. Remember at the start of the show Locke was a man of faith, who gave it up after he realised that there was no point in pressing the button, he became very sceptical, however now he sees a ghostly form, and he has to question himself again. Maybe being shot is another test by the Island/Jacob for Locke--Feargal 04:46, 15 May 2007 (PDT)Feargal

Maybe Jacob is a woman? (I know, it's a stupid theory, but we never know.) Kemot from Poland 08:54, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

I think we are seeing a monkey on Jacob's shoulder... --Dhampton 01:59, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Birthday theme

This article reveals that since this episode marks Ben's B-Day, we learn here that December 22nd is the day he was born. However, the flashback about Ben's actual birth allegedly takes place just outside Portland Oregon in what appears to be the middle of summer; not a snowflake in sight. Unlike Hawaii, Portland Oregon is not hot and sunny year round. So, either Ben's B-Day is not December 22nd, or the flashback of Ben's birth is wrong. Some podcasters have already been pointing out that this may be the first flashback we've seen that can't possibly be from the memory of the 'centric' character for that episode. Ben couldn't possibly have remembered his own birth. -- ZachsMind 13:40, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I'd like to know what year he was born, though...it could have been unseasonably warm that December, much like it was in December 2006 in New York. --Amberjet11 13:44, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • According to wikipedia the average high in January for Portland is 46F. Not exactly snow weather, but not shiny red convertible weather either. --Brian2 14:00, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
    • My memory of winters in the Portland area during the 1960s is that it rained a lot. A week or more might pass between breaks. One year it snowed before Thanksgiving, but the snow melted away within a week. Another year (1964), the Willamette flooded; it was the worst flood between 1948 (when Vanport was washed away) & 1996 (when the Willamette almost inundated downtown Portland). -- Llywrch 16:27, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
• Where was it said it was Portland in Oregon? The shadows don't look particularly long for what could possibly be mid-winter's day in such a northerly location. There's a Portland in the southern tip of Texas for example. Marky-Son 18:39, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
• Have we ever been told on-screen that the day on the Island matches the timeline here on Lostpedia? With all this talk about "lost time", why do we assume that the first day on the Island was the same on the plane? In other words, how do we know Ben's birthday is December 22nd?--Evernight 06:23, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

In keeping with the many mentions of birthdays in this episode, it is worth noting that Ben says to Richard, "You do remember birthdays? Don't you?" Since Richard seemed not to have really aged over the years, can it be assumed that Richard is in fact ageless, and no longer celebrates birthdays because he is locked in time or something? --Frenkmelk 20:39, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• If Richard is ageless, then how does he go from boy to man? Unless he just ages slowly?
  • We have never seen Richard as a boy, in the forest with long hair it is quite clear that he is at least in his thirtys. A fine age for a ships mate.
    • It has been suggested that cells multiply quicker on the island (hence increasing healing and greatly decreasing aging). This would mean that, on island, children would grow up very quickly and then stay middle aged looking for ages

Unanswered Questions

Consistently, after every episode, this section is a complete mess. I just had to get that off my chest. Just looking at it makes me queasy. --Freebert 21:15, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• You're welcome to try and clean it up :-D JoelVanAtta 21:28, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
• I think I'll wait until the influx of confused fans posting ridiculous questions stops within a day, seeing as many of them are already/will be answered or are irrelevant. --Freebert 21:35, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
• Dude, don't hate. This is a peaceful forum to discuss. --Frenkmelk 21:38, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
• I'm not. That's why I'm waiting for people to get their questions out and answered until I start to clean up the section. --Freebert 21:39, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
• Maybe this is my chemistry ignorance talking but--did the teacher, when demonstrating the volcano, say she was pouring water into the mixture of bicarbonate? Seems like you'd need an acid like vinegar to make this reaction work...? I got a suspicion that the volcano was something of a metaphor.
  • I also noticed that, and you are correct, you need an acid for that type of reaction to work. The significance of it...I have no idea.--
  • If you had a mixture of dry, powderized acid and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) then you could get a reaction by adding water to make aqueous mixtures of both. But you're right, generally you add vinegar to the baking soda. Maybe it's just a misstatement by the actress? Freebert 22:52, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
  • The teacher says "Just add water and voila!" as she pours water from a drinking glass. The teacher also refers to bicarbonate in the volcano, which is most commonly used to refer to sodium hydrogencarbonate. So because the reaction occurs we can safely infer that an acid was already in the volcano. This is hardly a stretch considering the hundreds of alka-seltzer volcanos that have been used in schools all over the world and work because of this same reaction. You wouldn't expect the Dharma Initiative to use a brand name would you? The show can easily be right with the information given, so it can't be called an error. Also, does this bit of trivia add anything useful to the conversation about the show? Tedsmith 23:45, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Ah, so here's where you guys decide who lives and dies on trivia...Just want to clear up my trivia piece (you could have asked). The teacher calls it 'bicarbonate' which is baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate. Class volcanoes do not use alka seltzer, and it would not provide the reaction shown in the scene. Baking soda and vinegar have pHs that allow that reaction, certainly not water and baking soda, unless your water has a pH of 2.Isonomist 08:49, 14 May 2007 (PDT)(I'm new at thsi)

• It seems especially bad after this episode. Roger Workman 10:07, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I would think the extra 7 million viewers had something to do with it. It was a particularly good episode. I've started some cleanup and posted some reasons at the bottom. I wish people would try to not be so cynical. This is what makes Lost great. I can't remember a show since the old Law and Orders that had people thinking so much afterwards. My 2c.--Lucky Day 00:38, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
• There are questions in that section that are already answered in the summary. What about that? Roger 16:38, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Volcanoe?

• Talking about volcanoes the teacher said something about the volcanoe demonstration, and the little girl said can that happen here? The Teacher responds "Yes but it happened a long time ago." or something along those lines. Could this mean that there is a volcanoe on the island?--ConnerXcountry57 07:21, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Most Pacific islands (take Hawaii, for example) were created by underwater volcanoes long ago, so that's likely what the teacher meant. JoelVanAtta 09:27, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
• Well thats true but thats not what I meant. I heard somewhere (sorry i cant remember where there are way too many forums) that there was gonna be a big bang in the last episode. This could be a foreshadowing about this explosion maybe a volcano will erupt, resulting in a main charactors death.--ConnerXcountry57 12:48, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Others and Hostiles

There would seem to be a much better case now for making a distinction between the Others and the Hostiles. Richard and associates are hostiles. We know almost nothing about them. Ben, defectors from the Initiative, the people he has brought to the Island since the purge (like Mikhail) plus the old Hostiles seem to make up the Others. Dharmatel4 21:52, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

• I'd say that it was more appropriate to divide them into Dharma Initiative people and Original Inhabitants (Ben would be a DI person who switched sides). This would avoid much of the confusion inherent in the vague term "Others". It would also probably be more appropriate overall - the word "Hostiles" was used only by the DI to describe the OI, and "Others" was used by the Losties to describe non-Losties (with no distinction between DI and OI). --Doc 09:20, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Images to upload

Is there any screen shots I should upload? Mooga 22:16, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

WTF with the article? Where did the realtime events go? User:Malachi

VooDoo Dust Line

Did anyone else catch the dust line they crossed heading to Jacob's place? The voodoo belive that you can lay down a dust line, normally red dust, that will stop people to mean to harm you from crossing. Steven Andrew Miller (☎) 22:56, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Its not just Voodoo. There is a more general concept of a magic circle that can be used to keep something in or keep something out. Dharmatel4 23:09, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

Circles of ash in certain Native American cultures I believe are said to trap a wayward spirit--HAL4815162342 02:29, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

This would imply that Jacob is a wayward spirit, and he's been trapped by ... Ben? Perhaps that's why Jacob was asking Locke for help. --Doc 09:22, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Doc, that's what I think also... a circle around the hut, and a plea of "help me" doesn't sound like someone who is in control of the island. Perhaps Ben has usurped power away from Jacob, and is why he leads the "Others" rathed than Richard... perhaps Ben had been the "chosen one" by Jacob, but has betrayed him? Magicalpath 20:59, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Who says it's ash? I assumed it was gunpowder, related to whatever Rousseau is doing with explosives. RicardoSignes 05:26, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

It looked like gunpowder to me as well. dposse 05:56, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

It's not gunpowder and Rousseau didn't place it there. Otherwise Ben would have been surprised by its presence. Plus it is too far away and not leading to the house but around it.

I assumed it was volcanic ash.--Tricksterson 07:02, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

that's not logical. why was it only in that one ditch, and why did Ben and Locke step over it? dposse 09:52, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I am thinking that this trail is a gunpowder trail leading to "Jacobs" hut. Rousseau may be planning to blow up this hut for some reason.--ConnerXcountry57 12:51, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Doesn't gunpowder absorb water very quickly? Placing it on the floor of a jungle with a very moist climate and where it rains frequently would defeat its purpose, would it not? Also, we saw Rousseau take a box sticks of TNT never have we seen her (or anyone from what I recall) with gunpowder so to assume its hers even if it is gunpowder is quite a leap.

Myself I hope its some how connected to the smoke monster and therefore connected to Jacob, a trail of dust for some other yet unseen reason, or the whole voodoo circle place by Ben to trap Jacob leading to his "help me" comment. The voodoo/magic circle being my least favorite due to it being a little hokey even for this show. --Suddud (Talk) 22:56, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

I'm of the same opinion as Suddud. Since only Ben knows where Jacob is, Jacob cant kill Ben as it would mean he's trapped for the forseeable future until the circle is somehow broken. Although you'd think if that was the case Jacob would have said something more along those lines than just "Help me". Like "Break circle" or something. I guess it'll be one of those mysteries we wont find out the answer to for ages! --Gredge 17:50, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Besides, gunpowder is black and grainy (despite the name), not grey and powdery.--Tricksterson 08:59, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

• Magicalpath, I definitely agree with you and your Ben betraying Jacob theory. It would definitely tie into the Lost Experience and Hanso Foundation, where Mittelwerk has taken over Hanso.
• Just something to think about - Anybody ever play with one of those magnetic boards where you arrange iron shavings into mustaches and beards? What if that is the dust that's usually around the Monster? Boloboffin 02:00, 13 May 2007 (PDT)
• Line not to Cross Remember Mr Friendly telling that to Jack? When Jack finally did Michael appeared.--Lucky Day 18:00, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob / Locke comparison image.

The visual similarities between the "flash" of Jacob manifested in the flesh, and John Locke (Terry O'Quinn) are undeniable in my personal opinion. Here's a visual comparison I made using photoshop tools and layers. Take note of the similar (exact) size comparisons of his brow, eyes, nose and chin. Feel free to re-size this image for other articles, but pease do not manipulate it further.Frankie Viturello 23:21, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

I really hope Jacob is future Locke. That would be the most awesome twist ever. In the universe. --Blueeagleislander 01:03, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Perhaps it's Locke of the future or past wearing the rags that the Others often sport (even on his head). --Lissette

Not forgetting that Ben said 'He hates technology as much as you do', which ties another link between the two men, if indeed they aren't the same. - SGT MattyW

Whose EYE IS THIS??!!

Okay, this is troubling me. John Locke has sorta steely gray eyes, and Ben has distinctively "bugged-out" eyes, but to whom do these eyes belong??? They are shown shortly after "Jacob" appears and Locke is shining the flashlight all around. The eye is someone's left eye and is only shown for a brief moment before Locke runs out the door. Discuss? The eyes are very dark, unlike Locke's light colored irises, so if Locke is meant to be Jacob, then he must be wearing colored contacts or that is not Jacob. --Frenkmelk 01:53, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• That's just Ben's left eye. the eyes are dark because the room is dark. --User:FabC
  • I agree. The closeup of the eye is an important motif in Lost, but it is always (I think) of the character whose flashbacks are being featured. At this point, Ben has just suffered a tremendous loss of face in front of his rival, Locke. The lighting on the eye's face is on the left side of the face, just as it is on Ben's face in the shot right before the eye shot. The eye closeup is Lost's shorthand for being lost (Jack's eye waking up in the jungle in the first episode is the best example of this), and when Ben is flung back by Jacob in front of Locke, his second reaction (after a shocked look to Jacob) is to see how Locke reacted to this event, It's very eye-opening (ha!) that the eye motif was used at this point. Ben is utterly lost, and he reorients onto the rivalry with Locke, with the results we see at the end of this episode. Boloboffin 01:45, 13 May 2007 (PDT)
    • Plus if you look at the scene right before the eye shot : Close up of ben, against the wall, his head and eyes facing toward locke. Next is close up of the eye, looking in same direction as Ben's. Next he looks left toward jacob. I think people focus way too much on the 2nd shot of the "mysterious" eye, they should look at the first one when the eye looks in Locke's direction, its obvious is ben's in this particular frame. Even the blodshot vessels matche's ben in that same scene. FabC 07:57, 13 May 2007 (PDT)FabC

• Interesting screencaps...but my main question right now is what the heck is up with all the veins and red eye near the bottom left of the eye and (what seems to be) burst blood vessel in the right side of the eye near the tear duct? --Freebert 18:50, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• The eye seems to be almost as much of a mystery as Jacob. Logically, one could say that it must belong to either Locke, Jacob, or Ben. After looking at some stills, I do not believe it is Ben's, I believe it either belongs to Jacob or Locke. Then I think we are left with three possible outcomes, it's Locke's (either as John Locke or Jacob), Jack's (Presumably as Jacob), or it belongs to Jacob (any one of the various other possibilities whom we haven't met yet). Anyways, check out the pictures and see what you think. The key to the eye we see in the scene is the small skin flap or ridge on the inside corner where I have arrows pointing.

Here is Ben's eye, no flap/ridge:

Locke's eye:

Jack's eye:

I also thought a little about what Frenkmelk was saying about Locke wearing colored contacts and it made me think of when Locke had one black eye and one white eye in Claire's season one dream. Dunno.

--Duvfeatherdraven 11:39, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Holy crap, that does look exactly like Matthew Fox's eye! Good call on the tear-duct / skin flap detail. Though, I still believe my photo comparison of Locke and Jacob is valid as well (too similar to throw out even with the eye evidence). I'm guessing now, with the producers knowledge of how we screen capture and dissect each frame in "flash" sequences like this, they may have had BOTH Terry O'Quinn and Matthew Fox present to portray Jacob so we wouldn't know what to think / what direction to go with this theory! Frankie Viturello 12:07, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• It reminds me of a storyline done in WWE years ago -- Undertaker's wife was being stalked by an unknown person who distorted his voice. The writers hadn't yet decided who would be the actual stalker, so when someone used software to remove the distortion, it was clear that Vince McMahon was speaking the stalker's lines. So it's possible Terry O'Quinn and Matthew Fox are both playing Jacob until the writers decide who he is (or rather, decide to let us know who he is). And not for nothing...Christian Shepard has similar eyes. I'm not good at that screenshot thing, but his eyes resemble Jack's, only they're rounder with more whites to them. --Amberjet11 12:24, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Don't think it's Christian Shepard's either, though the producers did say we should be wondering where his body is...--Duvfeatherdraven 16:16, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

I am pretty sure this is Desmond's eye. Can somebody do a screen shot comparison?--Vienna77 13:06, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I don't think it's Desmond's eye, I looked at that, but here it is anyways--Duvfeatherdraven 16:16, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Here's another photoshop comparison from this episode. Using some of the excellent above comparisons between Jack and the "mystery eye" (Is it Jacob's?). Take a look at the muscular attachment near the tear duct. It's near (if not) exact.Frankie Viturello 17:34, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Hello there. New here. I've noticed that it is Jack's father's eye. It's gotta be. I made some pics to compare:

Compare these:

Look carefully, they practically look identical. --Seldane 17:49, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Trivia corrections

"Ben kills his father on his own birthday. Ben also attempts to kill John again on his own birthday." Ben actually shot Locke the day after his birthday, so this should be deleted. MightyHealthy 01:56, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Dude, where is the half of the article with most on-Island events? User:Malachi

Painting

Does somebody recognise that painting at Jacobs house? What does it show? BeŻet 04:01, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• It's very dark, so it's hard to tell, but when increasing contrast of a frame, I think it looks like a dog: MiF86 05:36, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Seems to be a St. Bernard .--Ar-ras 08:59, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

I was worried Jacob would be a dog after they showed that.. are they any characters who are known for having a dog like that? --Mithos 10:51, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Could it be Vincent? -- Lissette

• Could be. Why would the writers put that shot there if it wasn't significant? It's got white (or yellow) fur in the painting. No more or less likely that Vincent could be more or less subject to time shifting on the island than Locke, Jack, Desmond or any other characters that we've theorized about.Frankie Viturello 12:49, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Maybe its the Golden Retriever that found the Locke family after Jennie's death? -- TheElmo

Ben's age

If any of you car nuts can identify the cars that appear in the birth scene (the prominent red one, but also the truck and other car), this would result in an upper bound on Ben's age.

Also, Ben was born 32 miles away from Portland. Where would that be?

--Komet 04:08, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

On this show, it could be just off the coast of Bali.;-)--Eyeful Tower 04:23, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

That was a 1960 or later "high light" Volkswagen Karmann Ghia. It might even have been the 1973/74 two-seat model. Note that the Three Dog Night song, Shambala, which was playing in the van when Locke killed his dad was released in 1973 (not that this matters really). I'd say Ben was born after 1960 and was an adult Work Man (heh heh) by the mid 1970s. Accelerated aging anyone? --Pedxing 06:26, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

I don't think the scenes with Ben being an adult were that far back in the past. The DI bodies in the mass grave, and espeically their clothing, would have decayed much more significantly if it were that long ago. My guess would be that it was only a couple of years ago that the "Hostiles" purged the DI personnel. --Doc 09:29, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

However considering that Juliet came 2/3 years ago and the fertilisation programme seemed to be up and running, proper recruitment with richard, etc. then I'd imagine it could well be up to 10 years prior to the crash... --Sixtyten 14:22, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

In season 1(?) when Jack sees the skeletons of "Adam and Eve", he makes a comment about how he can't discern when they died due to the climate of the island causing rapid decomposition.Bird1234 18:26, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

It's interesting how aging might be accelerated to some point, then slowed / stopped at others (like Ben's father)... interesting properties of the Island.  ;) - Hunter 07:22, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Note that Young Ben is carrying the white rabbit in a "Fossil" messenger bag. Fossil came out in 1984. They didn't start to produce bags until the early '90s. Maybe it's just a continuity issue? - Dani

Numbers

Is it of any interest that 54439 is 7777 * 7?--Foggy 04:32, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Okay, how did you even come up with this? Just use a calculator and work backwards? Or are you just real good with numbers and saw this straight away? It is interesting though, but I'm not sure why 7 would be of significance. The number Juliette used was 1623 which is 15*108.2 but I don't think that has significance either. --Suddud (Talk) 13:42, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

It is also 7*7*11*101, 7*7*1111, or 77*707. I don't think any are significant.SDSpivey 11:06, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Also, 5+4+4+3+9=25, and 2+5=7!

You can do this by starting prime factorization. The first prime that divides 54439 is 7 and 54439/7 = 7777. ∇ϕ 21:58, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Danielles experience

Danielle I beleive is one of the few survivors of the purge and the gas is what killed the scientists. I dont know how dannielle survived but I really beleive thats what killed the scientists. The only problem is that the distress signal has been looping for 16 years so unless Mikail is lying about him witnessing it or being there at time it did occur in my timeline than it doesnt fit in with the timeline

• 16 years ago according to sayid's "rough estimate" of the message being 30 seconds long. if its indeed more like 18-19 sec like in part two of the pilot episode, then the message would be roughly 10 years old which is consistant with mickail's story - and the theory that the message in fact relates to the purge... --User:FabC

• Remember Alex is 16/17 years old. So by that, Sayids estimate should be correct? --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 11:58, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Depends if danielle is telling the truth about the message and alex being kidnapped shortly after birth. Personally i dont believe a word she says, there's a few holes in her story starting with the content of the distress signal itself... --User:FabC

Carlton Cuse is the Voice of Jacob

As teased on last weeks Offical Lost Podcast, The "Help Me" uttered by our friend Jacob was none other than Carlton Cuse! Somebody removed it from the Trivia Section for no apparent reason.--Passafistwastaken 06:14, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

So Carlton is Jacob. I knew it!--jestaib

• Apparently, they use Carlton for all the "deep" voices. He also apparently, according to Gregg Nations, does the "Previously on Lost" at the beginning of each epi. --Marik7772003 14:59, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Whispers?

Was I the only one to hear the whispers when young Ben sees his mother and then later just before he meets Richard?--Tricksterson 07:06, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

No i heard them to not sure what they said though. Can any one help?--ConnerXcountry57 07:16, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Me too, and I'm pretty sure I heard "More than island" whatever it may mean Asgan 10:49, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

This is what I can get out of it, when child Ben runs up the the fence it a male voice says "...reminds me of prison" and then a female voice replies. Its all very faint. When Ben is again running through the jungle looking for his mother there is heavy breathing, and it MAY be saying "Not Him" but I may just be hearing voices when its just breathing. I am also working on what Candle says in the background during the orientation scene. --Brian2 15:55, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Doesn't it just mean its the Others/Hostiles? Richard does make an appearance shortly after that.--Lucky Day 18:05, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

• • Okay, so there are extensive and maybe dubious transcripts over at Lostwhisperingif it is true, it really blew my mind and could really be a missing lynchpin that could bring the events of the series into a whole new light! I really think that there should be more discussion/research regarding these damned things! --Frenkmelk 12:44, 27 June 2007 (PDT)

Locke Being Shot!!!!! :o

Ok so is any one else upset that Locke was shot? I mean he is such a beast. (in a wierd old guy sort of way:) Any way, i have a feeling he wont die, and if he does then that will suck.--ConnerXcountry57 07:29, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

I hope they don't kill off Locke, he's the best char ever! Ever since her showed up with his 300 knives... Mooga 08:58, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• As awful as it was for Locke fans to see him take a near gut-shot ... I think that if years of watching television and movies has taught us all anything, it's that when the villain "leaves the hero for dead" (i.e. Batman or James Bond left in a pit of doom or strapped to a time-sensitive death trap) it's NEVER the last time we see the hero. Of course, with a show with as many twists (as well as red herrings) as LOST, who knows ... but I think we'll be seeing Locke again before the end of the season.Frankie Viturello 09:47, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
• Locke dying would probably ruin a large part of my enjoyment for the show in all fairness. Most of the characters just seem to have their thumb up their arse with regards to the overall story arc. Given what the writers have been saying about a) A "game changing" event regarding the cast of the show and b) A fight between Jack and Locke with a major outcome for the Losties and c) Jack doesn't die. I just don't like the way this is going.Terryjb 16:28, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Locke is definitely not dead. Per ABC, he is going to be in the finale: In the two-hour finale, Jack and a new (improved?) Locke are going to have a long-awaited showdown that will affect the future of all the survivors. dani

whats your source? --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 17:42, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I'm not sure what dani's source is, but he's listed in the finale cast list at ABC Medianet LOST SEASON FINALE PRESS RELEASE.Frankie Viturello 21:15, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Well, that is what I did hear too, that Jack and Locke have to butt heads before the season is out. We'll see I guess!  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:55, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Perhaps Lock becomes an Obi-Wan character to the losties? Lots of other dead characters keep showing up. Mysterio 14:49, 11 May 2007 (PDT)Carnage

There's a very interesting interview with Michael Emerson on Lost-Media which gives some interesting hints about Locke's fate. I know a lot of people have been discussing the exact position of where Locke got shot, and this would add a lot of weight to a certain theory... Blackannis 05:27, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Can anyone confirm that the side of the body John was shot through was the same side he donated on? Anyone got a shot of his scar? On a side note after last episode, perhaps John can get it back now.--Lucky Day 18:08, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

taking a look at the screenshot, Locke appears to be shot in the stomach, not the kidney area.--Lucky Day 11:26, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Ben is a smart calculating person. He's thoughtful and isn't prone to leave things to chance. He knows that Locke gave a kidney to his father. He is completely aware od the island's healing powers. Why would Ben intentionaly push Locke into the pit and then shoot him without finishing and ensuring that Locke's fate was sealed, if killing Ben was his intention? If Ben didn't intend to kill Locke, why shoot him at all? In either event, it seems all to sloppy for Ben's character.--BenjaminLinus

Further credits

The end credits list the following characters:

Jenn Boneza as Dharma Welcomer

Gregory Suenaga as Dharma Rep. 1

Diamente Keilo as Dharma Rep. 2

I didn't like to add them, in case there's any kind of policy regarding them or anything - plus, some of the names may be misspelled, I got them off a YouTube video, which was kind of blurry. >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 07:54, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

One of these is probably Opal (not Gregory though). >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 09:24, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Trivia - Circular Shadow

There is a note in the trivia section about a circular shadow behind the chair. Unless there is a screencap of this, I say remove that trivia. In addition, Locke was using a flashlight, an item that projects a dark circle in the center of a ring of light; it's possible said circular shadow was simply from the flashlight. --Squashua 08:06, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• sheesh, you sure are hankering to delete that theory. here's the screencap from darkufo.
  • The 'circular shadow' is also on the wooden struts of the chair; so it's not something on the wall, it's from the flashlight. Burt Gummer
  • Looks like it's the center of a flashlight to me. --Squashua 12:10, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Where are the scratches on the seat?--Ar-ras 08:50, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I added the 'circular shadow' note.

I think you are underestimating two facts: the first being that the shadow is shown in two different but close shootings (two perspectives), so the director WANTS to show us that detail. The second that the shadow is never shown when locke uses the flashlight even from a further distance (more the distance, bigger but less dark would be the central shadow,huh?).the first reason for me is enough.sorry for posting my ideas in the main page without having any contradictory. (Mahonar 17:40, 10 May 2007 (PDT))

• LOL ok i checked this. The central shadow is shown when Locke illuminates Ben for the first time OUTSIDE the house; and as someone before has said, it moves with the flashlight movement. I'm not as sure as before about the Smokey theory. But i have to say that the shadow is way bigger on the chair than the first time (even considering that the distance may be the same). (Mahonar 17:40, 10 May 2007 (PDT))

TNT - I'm Dynamite....

I just wanted to remember you of the start of the secound season. We see someone in the swan station doing his usual stuff... Then something explodes. Could it be the in the time of the purge? The Hostiles dont know the secret door but the open rescue door, as we remember, Goodwin is surprised when he sees the hidden door in the djungle, so the hostiles dont know so much about the Dharma Hatches...--Ar-ras 09:16, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Except, immediately after the explosion, Desmond looks through his fancy mirror setup and sees Locke and Jack staring down the now-blown-away escape hatch door... that was the point of the episode. JoelVanAtta 09:33, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Nope, as i remember correctly the eye was green and not brown  != Desmond --Ar-ras 09:38, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

If you listen to Goodwin, he knows exactly what the Arrow was. He actually says what it is as speculation. He wasn't suprised so much as concerned that the tail section group had stumbled into a place where they should not have been. Dharmatel4 09:43, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Nerve Gas

While some symptoms of the gas used against DHARMA are similar to nerve gas exposure, nothing presented in the episode specifically says its nerve gas. The other problem with it being nerve gas is that the precautions taken by Ben and the hostiles are all wrong. Relasing a nerve agent in a closed space like a van with only a resperator as protection would be very dangerous (if not fatal). Releasing enough gas to blanket an area the size of the barracks would also require far more protection than resperators. Dharmatel4 10:12, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• I agree, nerve gas is assuming too much. I say we just call it poison gas. Simple, descriptive, and non-assuming.--Brian2 11:18, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I firmly believe the gas used was sarin gas. Symptoms of the gas include convulsions, bleeding from the nose and mouth, and death. To top it all off, this type of gas has been specifically mentioned in the past. Sarin IS a nerve agent, so calling it nerve gas would technically be correct, right? Sarin gas can also cause post-traumatic stress disorder, so maybe being exposed to the gas while in the truck led to some of Ben's craziness? Also said to cause temporary and permanent eye damage, maybe through some crazy situation, this led to ben's ability to see Jacob. Does anyone have a good screencap of the containers used to adequately identify the gas? --Loki 17:41, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• removed my screencap of the canister as Amberjet's one is much clearer* --Gredge 18:10, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

• I can't take credit for that...I don't have the technology to do screencaps. But thanks! --Amberjet11 07:14, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

If Ben released the concentration of Sarin gas shown in that van, he would be dead. Sarin in vapor form can absorb through the skin without great difficulty. Saying that its Sarin is worse than saying its just nerve gas. While the symptoms are consistant with nerve gas, the precauations and method of application are not. As far as screencaps, the container looked like a prop. Dharmatel4 18:39, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Hmm...you got me there. Maybe it was intended to be sarin, but someone goofed in the planning of the situation? I dunno...I thought I had a pretty good idea going there since the symptoms were similar and the stuff was used in One of Them. I guess I was wrong? Some clarification on a podcast would rock. --Loki 18:49, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Since this is television, its very possible that they intended it to be nerve gas and didn't understand the technical details. You could very well be right, but I'd rather wait until there is confirmation from a podcast or some other source. You are totally correct on the symptoms. Dharmatel4 08:43, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Here is a screenshot of the gas can: Image:Poison_gas.jpg. It says "[...]431CTP" and "[...]ARGE GAS". --Henryk 23:30, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Looks like an H right before that A -- "DISCHARGE GAS"? --Amberjet11 07:20, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

I think I've identified the basis for the prop. The prop is a repainted ALSG272 CS smoke grenade. [1] The mechanical details seem identical. Dharmatel4 09:11, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Pregnancy issues related directly to Ben?

Perhaps the pregnancy issues on the island are directly related to Ben being there.

We saw in this episode that his mother's pregnancy not only came "early" but caused her to die, and that was apparently in Portland, NOT on the island.

(Technically, they were 32 miles outside of Portland. Danesparza 16:51, 10 May 2007 (PDT))

Maybe in bringing Ben to the island, an unknown disease was transported there, Ben being the host/origin. Therefore the cause of the pregnancy issues are not geographical, but biological, and related to something we don't currently know about Ben or his parents.Frankie Viturello 10:10, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

It was stated that Ben was given birth in Emily's 7th month of pregnancy. Is it not around the same time the pregnant women on the island usually die?--Stan 10:55, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• Considering Ben is obviously an unstable individual, what about the possibility that BEN is the one who is killing the pregnant women? He has the characteristics of an Alpha male. Perhaps he doesn't want competition. Perhaps he believes that every baby deserves to die to honor his late mother? Hmm... Stacigh

• Possibly not, but with the potential for accellerated / slowed time, and / or time looping on the island...who knows.Frankie Viturello 11:00, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

It seems like the island reflects some of the attributes of the occupants of the island. In a broader sense, maybe the idea that many of the Losties have Daddy/Pregnancy issues is b/c the island affected the wider world and drew those kinds of people to Flight 815 as a reflection of Ben's own Daddy/Pregnancy issues. --Rjtalbot 12:47, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

32 miles from portland

Mt. ST. Helens national monument is around 32 miles from the city, do you think there’s a connection between MT ST Helens and the volcano on the island?

• Mt. St. Helens is actually located about ~90+ mi from Portland.
• Mt. Hood is much closer, but still a bit far depending on exactly what you're measuring. I went for a 15-mile walk last Monday, but I can't imagine many 7-month pregnant women would be up for that.--Bastion 12:09, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
• What about Portland, Maine, the city that the one in Oregon is named after?--Lucky Day 18:13, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Marvin Candle/Mark Wikmund

Wasn't he in the trailer for thi episode? Where was he?

• How about the orientation video in which he starred...

Two Chair's in Jacob's Cabin

I know there has been some talk of the shadow shown on the chair in the cabin, but I want to make sure people are clear on this, the chair shown with the shadow is not the chair we see Jacob in. There are at least two chairs in this cabin. Where Locke is standing there is a chair with a flat top to it, this is the same top as the rocking chair with the shadow on it. When we see Ben talking to "Jacob" the chair he is looking at has a curved top to it, the scene with Jacob is not cut, Ben talks to the curved top chair, is thrown back, and then we pan to the chair which now has Jacob in it. I am not sure why Locke is shining a flashlight on the rocking chair or why it is rocking, but it is not the same chair that Jacob is "sitting" in or in other words the chair Ben is talking at. If someone could provide some screenshots that would help. If not I will try to later tonight. --Suddud (Talk) 14:05, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Ben talking to the chair

Chair with the shadow

Still can't find a picture of Lock standing next to the chair, it's on my TV after Ben says "you can't see him?" it cuts to Locke who is standing with a chair to his right on the left side of the screen. At 43:18-22 after this when Lock is shown a silhouette of Ben's head is in the way. --Suddud (Talk) 14:22, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

• This is weird, why would Locke shine the light on the other chair, not where Jacob supposedly was?--Duvfeatherdraven 16:26, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Because it was rocking back and forth by itself. Locke shown his flashlight on a lot of different things in the cabin when it all started moving. The walls, pictures, a window, both chairs, etc... --Jakobud 17:01, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Tanks for the screenshot, I agree that he shined his flashlight on it because of it's apparent rocking for no good reason, I just wanted to ensure people were not assuming the chair was rocking because it was the chair that we see a glimpse of Jacob in. When in fact it was "possessed" (not sure what else to call it) like the rest of the objects in the room appeared to be. --Suddud (Talk) 22:41, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Roger's Resting Place

Hurley finds Roger in his van, which is on it's side in the middle of the jungle in Tricia Tanaka Is Dead . Yet at the end of this episode, we see him in the pile of bodies... I might have mis-read the name on the overalls but i'm fairly sure Roger is in that pit. Gredge 00:29, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Roger was left in the van. Richard and Ben have this very conversation, and Ben says they should leave him there.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:59, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

My mistake, I thought when it cut from Ben and the Others during The Purge to a close up of a corpse in the pit that it was showing Roger but on closer inspection there are no Rogers in the pit. Since i'm new to this adding stuff I guess I should delete this topic now yeah?--Gredge 05:01, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

No, never delete, only strike out, for tracking reasons. :) Concerning the topic: Ben killed Roger on a road up on a hill with no jungle nearby. Hurley found the Van in the jungle, on it's side surrounded by age-old trees and thick undergrowth! Are we supposed to believe that Ben tipped the Van on his own after driving it deep into the pathless jungle? Looks like a continuity mistake. Roger 16:54, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Yeah I noticed this too. Plus, the window was busted out and the body was pretty dented. I guess some storm could have knocked it over, but I'm betting not. Let's see - what can lift up a van and toss it aside? Yeah, my money's on the monster!!  :) --Pedxing 06:29, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

I noticed this to but it made sense to me. It simply means the Van was left there and ignored. The overgrown jungle is exactly what happens in the Tropics. Its not Old Growth forest that we are used to in our temperate zones which can take decades to centuries to grow but Tropical Forest which can take only a few years to completely encroach. One Missionary Kid my college class brought a flashlight as a prop and said in Colombia they call the jungle "Green Hell". In fact this answers what appears to be a hole in TTID. Why was the Van never noticed before? Why didn't DHARMA notice one of its Work Men were missing along with a lot of their beer? At first you think the guy was drinking and driving until this Episode. Another thing, was what was the van doing in the middle of a jungle? Answer: at one time it wasn't. DHARMA at one time was keeping their roads clear. Now its been left to rot by Ben as a symbol--Lucky Day 18:22, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

I think it was the Swan's electromagnetism what pulled the van down the hill. Kemot from Poland 08:59, 19 May 2007 (PDT)