Talk:Portal:Main Characters

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Why do we need this, when we have a category already? -- Ramirez Selvarn

Just wait. you'll see... †††GodEmperorOfHell††† --19:20, 19 May 2006 (PDT)
Then I shall trust the judgement of the alignhty SysOp. -- Ramirez Selvarn
Oh...this page is going to have pictures. Cool. Can a link to it replace the list of characters on the Main Page? -- Ramirez Selvarn
All in good time my friend. This will be just one page that will completely replace the blue and green boxes on the front page! --Plkrtn 19:52, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

Contents

Aaron

I wouldn't class Aaron as a main character.


Paulo

Can someone add him because he seems to be missing.

No, he's there. Jimbo the tubby 12:14, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Good Job

  • Good job with the makeover.

Charlotte Lewis, Miles Straume and Daniel Faraday

These three should definitely be added to this page, as they have now become series regulars, and it looks like they haven't been fitted into a specific category on the main page.

Pictures

Shouldn't Nikki and Paulo's pictures be changed to feature their main pictures on their articles?


Nikki And Paulo

Should definitely be main characters on this page. Also, i think this should include Ben and Juliet, as this page doesn't differenciate between the factions. I would include all characters in this page who have been billed as main characters in the credits. Also, can someone put up picutres of Nikki and Paulos promotional pictures?

The images

instead of making minis of all of the images cant you just set the width to somthing like 75px and it'll scale down to that size? [[imageimage.jpg|75px]] image: kman.png       talk contribs                   19:29, 19 May 2006 (PDT)


Very nicely done! -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 08:56, 20 May 2006 (PDT)

Uploading mini pictures will decrease the time it takes to load the portal page. When a picture is resized, it loads the whole picture, then resizes it. I'm not sure how big the "big" pictures are, so there might not be much of a difference though. -- Ramirez Selvarn
That's not how wiki software works. When you do a thumbnail or a resize, the software automatically generates a new image at the new size; when you click the image it will take you to the image page for the full-sized one, but the actual image that loads in the article will be the size you set it to. If you were to change the images in this article to resized full images, the load time for readers would be exactly the same and they would have the added benefit of clicking on the image to be taken to the full-size image page. -Branddobbe 00:19, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

Also, with the change I just made where the images themselves now behave as links, you really need to make sure you put a 90px high image in there. Problem is that the image tag only lets you set width, not height. Otherwise we could put any size image we like in there. BTW, do the images as links work for people? Perfect image centering can't occur when you play z-order/position games with style. My thought was that my inclination when I first went to the new page was "click the image to get to the character", but that clicked you to the image page. I could have used a REDIRECT in there, but that makes editing images very hard. This suggestion comes from wikipedia. --Circeus 19:41, 20 May 2006 (PDT)

Sun's Image

For some reason, Sun's image isn't coming up for me, even upon refresh. All the others are fine. I'd fix this myself, but the page is protected... *shrug* —XSG 15:30, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Me to, I traced it to adblock in firefox, because its stored under a directory named "ad". Not much you can do unless you permit the entire site in adblock. --Circeus 10:58, 30 May 2006 (PDT)
Oh so thats what it is, it won't work for me either --Nickb123 (Talk) 10:15, 9 April 2007 (PDT)

Aaron?

Why is Aaron listed as a Main Character? I can kind of understand Rose and Bernard being here (although I disagree and would put them under Supporting Characters personally). But Aaron? --Elvis 08:52, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

I'll admit he's borderline, but he does endsup in a lot of scenes, and Claire's entire existence revolves around him right now. He's certainly not supporting, he's just a minor main character, like Rose and Bernard. --Circeus 10:57, 30 May 2006 (PDT)
...but he's not listed as part of the main cast. -- Sam  talk  contrib  12:03, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

john vs. john locke vs. locke

i would change 'john locke' to 'locke' for consistency's sake. --kaini. 09:52, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

I changed it to both because some people refer to him as John, and others as Locke and still others as John Locke; this covers all 3 cases. Same as Mr. Eko not being listed as just Eko. --Circeus 10:55, 30 May 2006 (PDT)
I agree with Kaini that it should just be Locke because it would seem as if we are favoring him by listing his full name - Comedy240

If it remains as John Locke which I can see it has for quite a long time then maybe the other characters need their full names listed. --Princess Dharma (banned) 13:29, 4 February 2007 (PST)

I also think it should just be Locke --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 14:37, 20 February 2007 (PST)

Dead main characters

I'm sure there's no such thing as dead main characters in a TV-series, unless they've risen from the dead ;-) --Jambalaya 09:55, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

Techincally they were main characters. That said, I do have plans to come up with a way to overlay a transparent GIF of some sort on dead characters, so don't fret. --Circeus 10:54, 30 May 2006 (PDT)
With more characters being dead since the last time this section was updated, would it be possible to add a page for just dead characters, both losties and others? --Pjasnica|talk|contributions 10:56, 23 April 2007 (PDT)
I'll work on that in my sandbox, just to see how it looks. I'll post a link when I'm done, if you guys care. Sounds fun. -- Sam  talk  contrib  12:04, 24 April 2008 (PDT)
User:Sam McPherson/Deceased portal -- What I've got so far. It's all I can find that died on the island. Maybe? -- Sam  talk  contrib  18:06, 26 April 2008 (PDT)

Blonde Casualty, that girl who got sucked into a riptide in season 1, Radzinsky, Kelvin, Christian (kinda. Jimbo the tubby 16:12, 27 April 2008 (PDT)

Desmond must be considered Main Character

since the begining of the 2nd season, he has an important storyline in the plot... and he will has later, he had his own flashback... i supouse he is a main character of the series....

Fair point. In fact, on thinking on this, I'll go with the following: Main Characters are one's who have had Flashbacks - alive or dead. Everyone else is supporting. Which yes, means I'll move Aaron off the page, and put Desmond on. --Circeus 15:28, 30 May 2006 (PDT)
Only exception being Libby, because she is strong glue. --Circeus 15:35, 30 May 2006 (PDT)
Libby had a starring role on the show -- watch the opening credits for Cynthia Watros name -- so she should be there. Actors who have a starring role would be main characters whether they had a flashback or not. Thanks for removing Aaron.  :) --Elvis 07:34, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

Protected?

Why is this page protected? --Peephole 07:33, 2 June 2006 (PDT)

Juliet/Ben

They need to be added to this because Michael Emerson and Elizabeth Mitchell are offically listed as Main Stars on the opening credits on A Tale of Two Cities.--LOST ON CRAPHOLE ISLAND!!!!! 12:52, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

  • I agree. They are now considered "Cast" (not guest actors), and this portal is "Main Characters", not "Main Survivors". Yes, there will be overlap with Portal:The Others, but that's totally fine and harmeless, IMHO. Portal content need not be mutually exclusive. And of course we will soon have to add Paulo and Nikki.-- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T13:46, 18 October 2006 (PDT)
    • Agree- I agree with User Santa --James W.

Agree --lewisg 05:11, 19 January 2007 (PST)

  • agree especially now Juliet has had a flashback. Princess Dharma (banned) 11:40, 18 February 2007 (PST)

Agreed. Ben and Juliet must be added as main characters. --Benn 25 March, 2007

And months and months later they are still not added. They must be added to the main character portal because they are main characters. It shouldn't matter that they are also on the Others' portal, there are plenty of other articles, both on Lostpedia and the real Wikipedia, that are linked to from multiple portals. Free the Island two!!!! Admins take heed, the majority want Ben and Juliet on this portal! --Jeff 09:29, 20 June 2007 (PDT)

Nikki & Paulo?

Nikki and Paulo must be on this page. They are now Main Characters. --James W. 09:29, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

  • They are listed in casting still as guest actors, and they are already on the Supporting Characters list, which is more appropriate than "Main". --PandoraX 12:34, 29 October 2006 (PST)
  • But Rose and Bernard are alo Guest actors, yet they appear on this page. -- Craiggy

I'd agree with that, they are definitely main characters. User:Emmasankey/sig 11:56, 02 January 2007

Nikki and Paulo, along with Rose and Bernard, should NOT be included on the Main Characters page. Their names have never appeared on the opening credits under 'Starring', therefore they're not main characters - regardless of whether they've had flashbacks or not. -- Benn 10:22, 25 March 2007

Nikki, Paulo, Bernard, and Rose should not be on this page. None of them are main charactors. --Quint
  • Rose and Bernard shouldn't be on this page, they're not main characters, on Lost, theire names appear just on the episodes that they appear, as supporting actos. But Paulo's and Nikki's name appear on the episodes that theire not appear, like Matthew Fox, Evangeline, Dominic, Yunjin, Terry, Emilie, Michael and others. So, if there are someone to put on the main characters are Paulo and Nikki and not Rose and Bernard, and if R e B are on this page, N e P deserve to be to. And please, looke here, on PT Lostpedia how we fit them: Main Characters and Supporting, please people, Nikki and Paulo had promo pictures, and Rose and Bernard didn't. --Caio wgm 17:27, 3 April 2007 (PDT)

My mistake. Just re-watched the first few episodes and Nikki and Paulo are indeed listed under the Starring cast. Rose and Bernard however are not. Is this portal ever going to be updated, and have them replaced with Juliet and Ben who ARE main characters? -- Benn 12:41, 13 April 2007 (EST)

Order

How are these characters ordered?--Princess Dharma (banned) 13:15, 4 February 2007 (PST)

  • As far as I can see, none particular except that the "more important" roles are usually closest to the left upper corner (that and family/marriage relations are together, and Desmond is furthest away, since he is not an 815 survivor). We could always rearrange it alphabetically by first name (or nickname, in Sawyer & Hurley's cases). I don't find a big deal for LP though. --PandoraX 14:28, 4 February 2007 (PST)

I think order of mainity is a good idea. I reckon it should go in this order though Jack, Kate, Locke, Sawyer, Charlie, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Claire, Desmond, Rose, Bernard, Eko, Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Shannon, Boone, Libby. Down to opinion though. --Princess Dharma (banned) 11:24, 5 February 2007 (PST)

I think it should go in alphabeticle order, so its easier for newer fans to find the character they're looking for. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 14:30, 20 February 2007 (PST)

I might ordinarily agree, except in this case. At present, there are only 20 main characters to sort through, so it isn't that big a job. Plus, there's a picture next to every name. The only way to make it easier would be to give every new user a touch screen so they could just poke it and not have to guide a mouse. If we went alphabetically, that puts Ana-Lucia first, Bernard second, and Boone third. Ew! When do we get to someone we care about? -BearDog 14:37, 20 February 2007 (PST)

Personally, I think that the characters should be listed by the number of episodes they've featured in. I know that poses a bit of a problem with regulars that came into after season one, but it should still work out quite representitive. Obviously, you'll get the ones you'd associate anyway as being the main characters first (Jack, Kate, Locke etc...) and end with the likes of Libby, Rose, Bernard. Personally, I'm not sure Rose and Bernard should be on here. I know they've had their own flashback episode, but Bernard's only had six or seven appearances (I think). At a push, I'd keep Rose in, she's been there since the pilot on and off. - unsigned

I like the idea of number of episodes, I went to IMDB.com (I know its not that reliable, but it is the best I could think of). My findings as of Expose:
  • 61 - Jack, Locke
  • 60 - Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Charlie
  • 58 - Claire
  • 47 - Michael
  • 33 - Shannon
  • 28 - Boone, Walt, Eko
  • 24 - Ana Lucia
  • 22 - Libby
  • 17 - Desmond
  • 13 - Nikki, Paulo
  • 10 - Rose
  • 9 - Bernard

-Comedy240 11:47, 15 March 2007 (PST)

My count:

  • 56 - Jack, Sawyer
  • 55 - Kate
  • 54 - Locke
  • 52 - Hurley
  • 51 - Sayid
  • 49 - Charlie
  • 46 - Jin
  • 45 - Sun
  • 39 - Michael
  • 37 - Claire
  • 27 - Shannon
  • 25 - Walt
  • 22 - Boone
  • 20 - Ana-Lucia
  • 19 - Eko
  • 18 - Libby
  • 11 - Desmond, Bernard
  • 10 - Rose
  • 6 - Paulo
  • 5 - Nikki

>: 4 8 15 16 23 42 06:15, 22 March 2007 (PDT)

I kinda like either one of two things: In order of the actor that plays them, with Adewale first and Cynthia Watros last, or Living characters first and dead or no longer present characters last. And, if Rose and Bernard are there because of the "flashback" logic, then Nikki and Paulo should be added after next week's episode. Esp. since they were listed as main characters all season. --Jeff 10:20, 23 March 2007 (PDT)

Personality Section

I think that on the main page for every character there should be a short personality description. After all, this is an encyclopedia, and shouldn't just detail events... visitors to the site might want to know a little bit about what Sawyer's like, for example. Any thoughts? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  02:16, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

Rose & Bernard

Since Nikki and Paulo are in the supporting character section, I believe Rose and Bernard should be as well as they are not regulary featured and both have appeared in roughly 10 episodes each. --HolySock92 17:45, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

  • I second that --Jeff 18:51, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
What actually constitutes a "main character"? Juliet and Ben are now regulars in Season 3, should they be added as well (while still being in The Others section)? Can main characters only be "the good guys"?

I do agree with Rose and Bernard, they are supporting characters like Nikki and Paulo. - Doom85

Renaming & Reordering

Wouldn't it be easier to rename this article as "Main Crash Survivors". That would save arguments because then Rose, Bernard, Nikki and Paulo would have to be put in the category seeing as they are "Main Crash Survivors".

From examining episode appearances and amount of flashback episodes I think the actual order of the characters should be:

  • Jack - Ep Appearances: 63, Flashback Eps: 10
  • Kate - Ep Appearances: 63, Flashback Eps: 8
  • Sawyer - Ep Appearances: 61, Flashback Eps: 5
  • Hurley - Ep Appearances: 59, Flashback Eps: 5
  • Locke - Ep Appearances: 57, Flashback Eps: 8
  • Charlie - Ep Appearances: 55, Flashback Eps: 6
  • Sayid - Ep Appearances: 55, Flashback Eps: 5
  • Jin - Ep Appearances: 51, Flashback Eps: 4
  • Sun - Ep Appearances: 49, Flashback Eps: 6
  • Claire - Ep Appearances: 43, Flashback Eps: 4
  • Michael - Ep Appearances: 40, Flashback Eps: 4
  • Shannon - Ep Appearances: 27, Flashback Eps: 2
  • Walt - Ep Appearances: 25, Flashback Eps: 2
  • Boone - Ep Appearances: 24, Flashback Eps:
  • Eko - Ep Appearances: 20, Flashback Eps: 3
  • Ana-Lucia - Ep Appearances: 20, Flashback Eps: 2
  • Desmond - Ep Appearances: 18, Flashback Eps: 3
  • Libby - Ep Appearances: 18, Flashback Eps: 1
  • Rose - Ep Appearances: 11, Flashback Eps: 1
  • Bernard - Ep Appearances: 9, Flashback Eps: 1
  • Paulo - Ep Appearances: 7, Flashback Eps: 1
  • Nikki - Ep Appearances: 6, Flashback Eps: 1

Desmond is included because technically he was a "Crash Survivor" (he crashed his boat on to the island) and is also considered a "Lostie".

Danielle shouldn't be included because A: She hasn't had a flashback episode and B: She is rarely seen. Although Nikki, Paulo, Rose and Bernard havn't really been seen that much, they all have a continious storyline and Danielle is only seen in little blocks of episodes.

Bernard, Rose, Paulo, Nikki, Libby

Mentioned characters aren't as important as Jack or Locke, but they should be included on this page. In my opinion "main character" is someone, who had their own flashback. So Bernard, Rose, Paulo and Nikki should be included. Although Libby didn't have her own flashback, she appeared in flashbacks of two of the main characters, and we will learn more of her past. THESE CHARACTERS SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THIS PORTAL. Kemot from Poland 05:55, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Yes they should be and I don't know why they aren't. I will fix that now.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  06:41, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
I don't agree with this. Using flashbacks as a guide for who counts as a main character means that Nikki and Paolo, who only appeared in half a dozen episodes and only had a couple lines apiece in most of them, get counted as more prominent than characters like Christian or Danielle, who haven't had their own flashbacks but have had far more lines and screen time and much greater plot significance than Nikki or Paolo. Main characters should be characters who appeared in the majority of episodes in at least one season--i.e., the people who were listed here before Nikki, Paolo, Rose, Bernard, and Aaron(?!) were added plus Juliet and Ben (of course if folks want to keep Juliet and Ben in the Others section rather than here, there's an argument to be made for that, but that's a topic for another time).--Timmythegreek 08:24, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

I extremely don't agree with this. This portal should be for the characters that STAR in the show. That includes everyone who is listed under the STARRING CREDITS and excludes everyone listed under the GUEST-STARRING CREDITS. Rose, Bernard and Aaron (Nikki and Paulo are debatable) should all be gone. Juliet and Ben should be put in. --Benn 12 May 2007

Propose: Re-arrangement to include Others`

If this portal is designed to give quick access to common / important characters then it's not serving its purpose. Michael and Walt for example haven't been seen at all in Season 3, Shannon is dead and Rose and Bernard were never really important characters anyway.

We should move on from our Season 1 mentality and realise that Ben, Juliette, Mikael, Rousseau, Desmond etc are all major characters and should all be included on this page.

If you're trying to tell me Niki and Paulo are more "important" characters than Ben and Juliette then there's something wrong. Currently these portals are sorted by FACTION and ALLIANCE (The Others, The Lostees etc) when that's not what the title of the portal says.

I suggest that we sort them by season. If a character has made a significant appearance in the present day of a season then they should be added to that portal.

Jack for example would be in the portals for Season 1 characters, Season 2 characters and Season 3 characters - Michael and Walt would be in Seasons 1 and 2 and Juliette would only be in Season 3.

You then have a portal for secondary characters covering all seasons in one portal because it's a lot harder to know which season a secondary character was in. Finally a portal for characters only appearing in the past/flashbacks.

Penny for example has not really appeared in the present day (save for a brief few moments in the Season 2 finale) and so she is a flashback character.


It would make it a lot easier to find things because I was expecting to find Rousseau in the main characters and Naomi in the supporting characters - rather than hoisted to the "main characters" page after about 5 minutes of screen time.

The current sorting is too Season 1 mentality and done by which group they're from, which is fine if it was consistently named. However we need to make it so people like Ben and Juliette are main characters as they are as key to the plot of the show as any of the Lostees.


Why is Naomi in there? She's still a guest star at this point. Heck, Dr. Arzt has had more screentime than her at this point.

Poor Choices in Selections...

There have been some odd choices in "Main Charactors". The people like Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, and Libby all make sense, they belong there, but Aaron? Naomi? Aaron is a baby! He hasn't even been started speaking yet. He's more of a prop than a charactor. And Naomi? She hasn't had more than 5 scenes yet. What makes her worthy of being on this page?

Bernard, Nikki, Rose, and Paulo also belong in the other page. They are, and always have been, supporting charactors. Just because they've had flashbacks doesn't mean they're MAIN charactors. I propose a major cleanup of this portal in order to correct this new decision. Quint

Agreed. Rose, Bernard, Aaron, Naomi, Nikki and Paulo should be taken out of this portal and Ben and Juliet should be added to it. A flashback doesn't make a main character. This really needs to be modified. Benn

Disagree/Agree. "Main Characters" does not meen "Regular Cast Members". Although Rose & Bernard have not been credited as "Regular Cast Members" they would still be considered "main characters" of the show, but they would be considered the least main characters. And also, Nikki and Paulo where credited as "Regular Cast Members" before the hiatus but were downgraded to Guest Stars so technically, they were Regulars.

N&P weren't downgraded, ABC just messed up on the press releases. They were in the alphabetical opeing credits. --Jeff 18:56, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

I sort of disagree with Naomi being there but not Aaron. Another technicallity note: Aaron plays a big part on the island, is well known by Lost fans and has appeared more times then Ana-Lucia, Libby, Shannon and Boone.

I also think that Juliet and Ben should also be included although they are Others, because no matter what side they're on, they are main characters.

Characters are placed on this page based on either their cast status at the time, or importance to the story. As it stands, all of these characters during this season have either been part of the principal survivors of the Flight, or connected to them in some way, which is critical to the shows development (ie Naomi and Aaron's place). I have said this before, and I'll say this again... Aaron is a survivor of Flight 815, whose story is important to the show, and he is a principal character in that respect. Naomi is incredibly important to the show at the moment, so she stays. The Others are still that, Others, and they have their portal for that and thats where Juliet and Ben will stay for now.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  02:26, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Others or not, Juliet and Ben should be listed here as they support your definition of "main characters". Them being in more than one portal doesn't get rid of the fact that they ARE very important to the show. Besides, if your definition of "main characters" is based on importance, then you may as well list Danielle, Penelope, Cooper, Christian, Ethan so on and so forth -- they all have great importance to the show. Come to think of it, you may as well add in Adam Rutherford who was on-screen for a rough 5 seconds because his death was critical to show's development as it resulted in at least 3 people becoming crash survivors. If importance makes a main character, there'd be a hell of a lot more names on that list. Benn

I believe that the main characters of Lost are the 22 listed in the 'starring' credits (Ana-Lucia, Ben, Boone, Charlie, Claire, Desmond, Eko, Hurley, Jack, Jin, Juliet, Kate, Libby, Locke, Michael, Nikki, Paulo, Sawyer, Sayid, Shannon, Sun and Walt). At a push, I may be able to be convinced to include Rose and Bernard due to their flashback episode. Aaron, in my opinion, is NOT a main character - yes, Claire's story is pivotal around him - but should Vincent be added, due to him being pivotal to Walt? No. Naomi is also not main - she is a guest star, with no reason to be classed on the 'main characters' page. >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 14:29, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

I have to agree with one of the posters wayyy up in this article and it should be something like Main Survivors --Maith 04:09, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Not Naomi As said above, Naomi is a guest star, and is now dead. She did not become the survivor we thought she was. --Turniphead Danny 18:06, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Why is Naomi on this? Something tells me that Aaron should be taken off too, seeing as though he's probably not going to have his own flashback episode. Rose and Bernard can stay now i guess, but not Paulo and Nikki, seeing as though they were guest stars. And Ben and Juliet should be added to this page now. Also if Paulo and Nikki are here, doesn't that mean we should include Rousseau?--Magnet 20:16, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Rousseau's not listed under the main credits, and neither is Rose, Bernard, Naomi and Aaron. -- Benn

Seeing as the portal is called "Main Characters" then Juliet and Ben should be shown there as well. They are credited as main cast members and they have had at least one centric episode which means that they are officially main characters. They're even more major then Rose, Bernard, Nikki, Paulo, Eko, Libby and Ana-Lucia to the show and its plotline (in my opinion). Also, Naomi shouldn't be included in this Portal as she only appears in 5 episodes (or 4, i'm not sure). Arzt appeared in 4 episodes or so but he's not there, and also Naomi hasn't had a centric episode.

The portal should contain: Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Locke, Sayid, Jin, Sun, Charlie, Claire, Aaron, Ben, Juliet, Desmond, Rose, Bernard, Shannon, Boone, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Ana-Lucia, Libby, Michael and Walt (not in that order of course).

First things first, Naomi should definitely be under the Supporting Characters portal --Nickb123 (Talk) 06:22, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

I agree completely that this page should be ONLY for characters who have been credited as regulars. No Naomi, no Aaron. I would also argue against including Rose and Bernard, but they have had their own episode, so I could see why some people would include them as main characters. The fact that Ben is an Other is moot. This page isn't called "non-Other main characters", it's called "main characters", which CLEARLY includes Ben, and not Aaron or Naomi. Jimbo the tubby 14:31, 25 May 2007 (PDT)


It seems to me that the vast majority who has posted something on this talk page want the Main Character page to include all of the characters who are credited as series regulars. There's some contention around Rose and Bernard, but everyone seems to agree that Naomi and Aaron should be left out, and Ben should be included. Shouldn't the majority rule on this? Can we put it to a vote to see what everyone thinks? Jimbo the tubby 14:36, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

  • I think this page should be anyone in the original survivor group (so basically Main Protaganists), and anyone who has since joined them, who is named and plays a role in at least two episodes. This would include Aaron and Vincent, Rose and Bernard, Nikki and Paulo, Arzt and Desmond, Juliet, and maybe Karl and Danielle. But not people mentioned by characters but not explicitly seen, or who had a minor part in only one episode like Gary in the pilot or the people helping Bernard in SOS. The three other portals would be the Others, Misc real time characters, and flashback characters. I think that basing it on starring vs guest starring vs credited is too arbitrary, based on tv industry contract negotations, and not really related to the storyline, which is more logically broken down into protaganists, antaganists, minor characters, and flashback characters. --Jackdavinci 15:05, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

I think the character choices you describe would be more adequatly categorized under a page like "Important Characters" or "Important Survivors". This might just be in my experience, but when I've heard the term "main characters" in the past, it has refered to the characters who are credited as series regulars. In my opinion, most people who type "main characters" into the Lostpedia search bar are looking for a list of these characters, and not the characters who have served a significant purpose in the plotline (even if you use well-defined criterea to establish which characters those are). As for the "not related to the storyline" argument, neither are pages about cast, directors or writers, however all of these can be found on this site. At the very least, I would suggest having a "Series Regulars" page that would cover this. Jimbo the tubby 18:52, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

Excellent idea. There should be a "Series Regulars" page listing all actors who have been given a "Starring" credit and which seasons they starred in. Wrecktum 21:24, 25 May 2007 (PDT)
Why not have both... I think people are too stuck on the title of this article, which was probably arbitrarily chosen. We can always change the title to fit the content, which is the more important thing. We can have a seperate portal based on casting considerations...--Jackdavinci 22:45, 25 May 2007 (PDT)


I'm sorry, but Nikki and Paulo are NOT main characters. Likewise, Danielle is more of a main character now than a supporting character. I suggest rearranging these characters, because right now it does NOT make sense. Furthermore I would suggest changing the title of the page from "Main Characters" to "Losties" or something else, because there is a separate page for the Others, and newbies to Lost looking at the "Main Character" page may believe that those are the only main characters, when in fact there are obvious key characters who are Others. --Xanthom 01:03, 26 May 2007 (PDT)


OK, good call on finally adding Nikki, Paulo and Juliet to the page, but how in the world did Rose and Bernard end back up on here again after they were finally on the supporting page where they belonged? Not to mention Naomi, who's a DEAD guest star, and Aaron who half the time ISN'T EVEN PLAYED BY A REAL PERSON, just a doll wrapped in a blanket. The only people who should be on here are the opening credits main cast members, and that includes Ben. The other survivors and others should be on the supporting character portal pages. Please someone stop the madness finally, this is getting ridiculous.--Jeff 18:55, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

By the by, the current cast should be ordered before the dead/off the Island cast. --Jeff 18:55, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

I'm all for the suggestion of renaming the portal to 'Series Regulars' and editing it so that it's actually correct (ie - only lists the people who are listed under starring credits), because the set-up for this portal is beyond ridiculous. Benn 27 May 2007 (EST)

1. yes, it should be re-named 'Series Regulars'

2. The Characters that should be included are Jack, Kate, Charlie, Locke, Sawyer, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Clare, Sayid, Boone, Walt, Micheal, Shannon, Libby, Eko, Ana-Lucia, Ben, Desmond, Juliet and maybe Rose and Bernard but not Nikki and Paulo who were just guest stars and Aaron who hasnt even spoken a word yet?

Miss Klugh 05:24, 29 May 2007 (PDT)


OK, so the general concensus by nearly everone is that all characters who have been main, opening credits characters should be on this list, including Nikki, Paulo, Ben and Juliet. So whay hasn't been done yet? And what would be the big deal of Ben being on this protal and the Others portal?

How about this: This main character portal be divided into two divisions -- current (the living original cast, Ben, Juliet and Desomnd) and former (Michael, Walt and everyone who's dead). Then why not move all the other prominant others into the "Supporting characters" portal, because to be fair there are just Tom, Ethan, Goodwin, Klugh, Pickett, Coleen, Price, and a bunch of extra's named once and never seen again. Or, if there's going to continue to be an "Others" portal, than there should be a survivors portal IN ADDITION TO the main character portal.

Basically: Anyone and only anyone CREDITED AS A MAIN CHARACTER should be on the MAIN CHARACTER portal, be it flight survivor, "Other," or Scottish precog. Period. This mess really needs to get straightened out.--Jeff 20:17, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

  • So is this portal going to be revised or what? Moderators? -- Benn
  • So it's been more than two weeks and still no Ben and Juliet, despite what seems to be the majority wish that they bee added to the portal. Which Begs two questions: Does majority rule even matter and what harm is it it if Ben and Juliet are on both the main character and Others' portals? After all, lotsof other Lostpedia articles are linked to from multiple portals if they fit in multiple categories. For instance, the crash (Oceanic and Events) and The Elizabeth (items and vehicles).
OH, and why is the damn baby still on here. It's a prop. --Jeff 15:07, 8 June 2007 (PDT)
  • Unfortunately for us, it looks like the moderators do what's in their best interest and not the community's. ...Sigh Benn 10 June, 2007

Restructuring of portals

  • I think it's time to restructure the character portals. As far as the main page is concerned, the portals are now divided into Main Characters, Supporting Characters, The Others, Flashback Characters. Back when we only saw two other people besides the Losties on the Island, this was sufficient. Now that we've seen more of the islands population, and there is off island plot, and people coming to the island, and people changing allegiences, this no longer makes sense. The biggest problem I see is that there are two divisional principles at play and neither one is used unilaterally, and this is further confused by the poor choice of the title of this portal, "Main Characters" which implies different things to different people leading to arguments about who to include. The two different divisions are of course 1) plot related and 2) casting related. Right now we have an odd confused mix between them - The Others and Flashback Characters are a more plot related approach, while Supporting Characters is a cast/credit related approach and Main Characters unfortunately could sound like either. An all plot related approach would look something more like Losties, Others, Miscellaneous real-time characters and Flashback characters. An all cast/credit related approach would look more like Series regulars, Guest stars, Recurring roles, Non speaking roles and would include both the character and actor names ("Matthew Fox as Jack Shephard"). So I guess we have three options:
    • 1) Either/Or: The main page would be slightly more crowded if we used both approaches, so we could decide to just choose either the plot related set or the cast/credit related set and vote on which we like better.
    • 2) Both: There's only twelve links now on the main page, so four more is not a big deal. We could just use both approaches, each one in it's own row or column.
    • 3) Hybrid: We could try to finagle some kind of combination. Say, have the articles themselves be divided in a plot related fashion, but within the page itself it would be divide by cast. So Losties page would have a Series regulars Losties sub-section followed by a Guest starring Losties sub-section, etc. Others could do the same. We could use a different scheme for indicating deceased characters such as a different color border or text and/or listing them last in their section or placing a symbol next to their name.
  • I think this is worthy of discussion and maybe even a vote... At the very least, I think the title of this article needs to change because it is confusing things in the manner I suggested. What do yall think? --Jackdavinci 10:11, 27 May 2007 (PDT)
I'm of the opinion it should be plot related for the sole purpose of convenience to the visitors to the site. The casual viewer who visits Lostpedia is not going to know who is a guest star or recurring role. They will know who is an other or a Lostie, etc. I suggest the portals be changed to Losties (Survivors), Others, Flashback Characters, Realtime Supporting Characters, and Flashback/TLE Recurring Characters. The first three are obvious and for all intensive purposes complete. The forth is kind of a catch basin for people like Naomi, Danielle, Penny, Mathias, Cooper, Desmond (I would include Des in both this and Losties), and the forth for those such as Christian, Cassidy, Edward Mars or TLE characters. Although I see no problem with overlay if it is necessary such as Desmond, although he is not a Lostie I would definitely include him that cat if only because I know the casual viewer by now includes him in it. -Mr.Leaf 17:26, 27 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I'm for the the cast/credit approach. I personally prefer it be technical so that it's obvious what's black and what's white with no inbetween exceptions. -- Benn
  • Exactly. If you do it by plot-status, all of a sudden you have a bunch of characters whose affiliation becomes indeterminant. Just look at how much bickering Aaron and Naomi caused (though I'm so glad that Naomi is off the portal now). By doing it by cast status, there's no arguing about who should be included or excluded. Alternativly we coulds satisfy both sides of the argument by doing two types of division. Four pages for cast-status, and four pages for plot-status. Jimbo the tubby 17:03, 28 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I don't think there is any need for 8 portals. Portals are supposed to simplify things not make them more complicated. The ideas I am suggesting have pretty clear cut boundaries. Either they are an other or not, either they are a Lostie or not, either they are a prominent real time character of a prominent flashback character. I disagree heavily with the cast/credit approach for the reason people seem to be forgetting. We all edit the wiki and know it. However the other 10's of millions of people world wide who might visit the wiki do not. They have no idea who is a main character, what the heck a guest star is and even if they do, people are not going to know who is which. The thing you must consider is when people come to search for a character they do not search because of knowledge of press releases, they use knowledge from the show. Which would mean who is a Lostie, who is an other, who is a flashback character, thats how characters are sorted by the casual viewer, we should do the same. -Mr.Leaf 10:11, 29 May 2007 (PDT)


The character portals should be as follows: Main characters (this one), including both survivors and others; and supporting characters, including recurring Island, Other and flashback characters. There's not necessarily need for a "Guest star" portal and CETAINLY no need for a "non-speaking role" portal. Just because someone once said a castaway made frogurt for a living doesn't mean we have to read into it, especially if they guy hasn't even been seen, or event that they deserve an individual page! Let's not get carried away here.--Jeff 15:07, 29 May 2007 (PDT)
  • That runs head-on into the issue that we're already having. What constitutes a main character? Is it anyone who has had relelvence to the overall plot? The current storyline? Is it anyone who has had their own flashback episode? Is it all those who have been credited as series regulars? I agree with you that we don't actually need portals for non-speaking roles or guest stars, but that's not the issue at hand. As for the arguments put forth my Mr.Leaf, I disagree completely. The majority of the people who type "main characters" into the search bar will be looking for a list of the regular characters, not a list of characters with some importance to the plot (which, frankly, is all of them). If you want a list of Survivors or Others, there are already pages which feature these lists under titles that people are much more likely to use if that's who they're seeking. To organize the character portals by affiliation on the show is redundant and, worse, confusing. Jimbo the tubby 21:46, 29 May 2007 (PDT)
In my opinion Main character constitututes just that, the main characters: Jack, Kate, Charlie, Locke, Sawyer, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Clare, Sayid, Boone, Walt, Micheal, Shannon, Libby, Eko, Ana-Lucia, Nikki, Paulo, Ben, Desmond, Juliet.--Jeff 09:49, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

The only sticking points on this issue seem to be Nikki, Paulo, Rose and Bernard. Pretty much everyone seems to be in favour of getting rid of Aaron, and including Ben and Juliet. This has been "debated" (I use the term losely, because everyone is arguing for essentially the same thing) for months and needs to be changed. The Nikki/Paulo/Rose/Bernard issue can be resolved after (but for the record, I think N&P should be included and R&B left off). Jimbo the tubby 21:51, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

Restructuring Continued

As beforementioned by Jeff (see above), I think someone should use the huge break we're all experiencing between season three and four and recruit a team of members to recalibrate the portals to differentiate mainly between: alive, dead, paid per syllable and main and co-stars. As of this month it's been reported that Richard Alpert and Desmond Hume will become main characters. It can make this site easy accessible.

  • Desmond was already a main character, credited as a regular and everything.Jimbo the tubby 21:51, 5 June 2007 (PDT)

Living and deceased characters

I think this portal should be divided into two groups: living main characters and deceased characters. Just like the Others portal. That would give us a much better overview of the show. --I am from Norway and love LOST!! 23:28, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

  • I disagree. If we do that then we could end up with only one person here by the end of Season 6 whilst the rest of them are on the dead portal. Just keep main characters here, whether they are dead or not. --Magnet 23:17, 28 May 2007 (PDT)
  • As I've said before, I agree. If the other portals are divded into sections for the types of characters shown, why can't this one? And if by the end of season 6 there IS only one character left alive, which I doubt would ever happen, then we vote to restructure it again -- not that it would matter by then because the show would be done. --Jeff 15:10, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Petition to get rid of Nikki, Paulo and Aaron

The title says it all, just agree or disagree. --Magnet 23:21, 28 May 2007 (PDT)

I agree. -- Robi Wan

I Agree they are not main characters so should not be included here Miss Klugh 05:17, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

I Disagree - Nikki and Paulo were credited as main cast characters for the first six episodes of Season 3--Phil (talk) 05:37, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Disagree - In my opinion, main characters are those which have had a flashback. Although Aaron wasn't in a flashback, his bump was! :-) TheLostLostie 06:48, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Irrelevant - this argument is pointless under the current system. Please see my proposals above for picking a new system under which there wouldn't be this confusion. --Jackdavinci 09:57, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Disagree Even though they do not always appear in many episodes they are more than background characters and have a backstory the audience know about and hence should be main characters. DrGiggles 10:36, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Disagree on Nikki and Paulo, but Agree on Aaron. --Jeff 14:43, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Agree on all counts. Rose and Bernard should also be out of this portal.--Catalanowned 15:57, 12 June 2007 (PDT)

Agree Nikki Paulo Aaron aren't essential characters that are in more than only just a few episodes. Only Aaron is in more episodes, but has no dialogue and till his character gets more development, he should also be excluded. If things change at some later date, these characters can be re-included, but for now they aren't major players in the 'Lost' saga.--Vic Coutin 22:37, 20 February 2008 (PST)

Nikki, Paulo and Aaron are all survivors of Flight 815 with their own backstories in flashback. They're all staying where they are unless we decide to change the portals around completely.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email 

Aaron's backstory in flashback consists of two episodes (and one scene in a third ep) where we see Claire's bulging stomach. This is NOT sufficient to be named as a main character. The term "main character" refers to the characters who have been credited as series regulars EVERYWHERE that I've ever seen, except here for some reason. I don't understand why this is the case for Lostpedia, because I see it as confusing to people who type the words "main characters" into the search bar on the left. This is not what "main character" means. Jimbo the tubby 21:48, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

Which character is the driving force, the character that drives the narrative for the following? The Other's interest in children, major plot points and story lines driven by that character in multiple episodes, namely "Raised by Another", "All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues", "Homecoming", "Do No Harm", "Exodus, Part 2", "Fire + Water", "Maternity Leave"? Yes, Aaron. If Aaron's character wasn't there, there wouldn't be the Others, and the interest they have in Claire. Tom described Aaron as special, just like he did Walt, and he takes up just as much screen time. The babies who play Aaron don't get credited in the main cast, but they're not the Olsen twins in Full House are they? He is a fully rounded and realised character, not a comedy foil... Aaron is a major part of the story of Lost, and is an important, MAIN CHARACTER! There seems to be trouble seperating the characters importance to the show from the fact that the character is a baby. To suggest Aaron is not a main character when it comes to story and plot development shows a distinct lack of understanding of the shows plot and narrative.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:24, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
Being the driving force behind certain character or plot motivations is not the same things as being a main character. He drives the actions of Claire and the Others, but many other characters have are motivated by other characters as well. Specifically Cooper driving Saywer and Locke; Christian driving Jack, Claire, Sawyer and Ana Lucia; or even Rachel driving Juliet.
Aaron is nothing more than plot device, much like dynomite or the button: these things are what drives the plot foreward, but that doesn't make them anything more than glorified props. Yes he drives characters, yes he drives the plot but that is not what being a main character is. A main character is one of the protagonists of the story, and Aaron is quite clearly not one of them.
I will grant you that Aaron is an important character, but to call him a main character is to show a distinct lack of understanding for what that term actually means. Jimbo the tubby 14:32, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
Who's important to the driving force of the plot or not is irrelevant. If you want important characters in this portal then where's Jacob, Christian, Anthony Cooper, Diane, Sabrina and so on? If it weren't for the majority of the characters I just mentioned, then a lot of the people on the island wouldn't have even been born. Therefore, importance is irrelevant. Aaron, Rose and Bernard may be important but they are not main characters. Benn 19 June, 2007
Being pedantic isn't important either but you seem to enjoy being so.
The fact is, These characters have had many episodes that centre around them, the reasons they are there and are driving forces for the plot and script. Jacob is an Other, so is in the OTHERS section. Christian and Anthony Cooper are supporting characters to Jack and Locke respectively, and don't have entire storyline threads centred around them. Anthony and Christian are just a few characters in the storyline of the main cast, unlike Aaron, Rose and Bernard. They are main characters that aren't there to support other people's storylines, but have their own. They are important to the storyline, the storyline progression and all have reasons for them being on the island in the first place. If anything Claire is LESS consequential than Aaron, as she carried him but other than that doesn't really do anything! This is like smashing your head on a brick wall... Can anyone explain to me why they aren't main characters even though they've had flash backs, and drive the narrative no less than Hurley, Charlie, Boone, Shannon etc do without just saying "they aren't main characters"?  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  03:32, 19 June 2007 (PDT)
Aaron has had flashbacks? When did this happen? He wasn't even born at ANY point when flashbacks take place, much less has he had centric flashbacks. I disagree with Rose and Bernard being main characters, but I'm willing to concede the point. Ben and Juliet have also had storylines centered around them, have had flashbacks, and drive the narrative certainly more than Aaron: so then can you explain to me why they aren't on the Main Characters page? You claim that Aaron isn't there to support other people's storylines, but this is false. His only purpose is to further the development of Claire's character; her relationship with Charlie,(to a lesser extent) Sun and (to an even lesser extent) everyone else; and to further the development of the "Others want the children" storyline.
Can I explain why he's not a main character without just saying "he's not a main character"? Yes, I already have several times over: Aaron is not a protagonist of the story, the only way in which he supports the storyline is by his existence. He has no motivations, makes no decisions, takes no actions and has no interaction with other characters beyond being held/fed/changed by them. He is, in essence, a prop: much like the dynomite or the button. And, as explained in my previous paragraph, doesn't even meet your own criterea for being a Main Character.Jimbo the tubby 22:56, 19 June 2007 (PDT)
Rose and Bernanrd aren't main characters because whenever they appear -- which was only once in Season 3 -- they are credited as "Guest starring Sam Anderson" and "Guest starring L. Scott Caldwell." I think the whole "guest star" credit kind of gives it away. The same way Juliet and Ben should be on this portal because Elizabeth Mitchell and Michael Emerson are listed under the "starring" crdits. And, without adding anymore bile to this argument, Aaron is at best a supporting character when he appears at all or is not being portrayed by a doll in a blanket, which is about half of his appearances. If you consider how many episodes per season Claire misses, and couple with that the fact that he's not necessarily always with her, I can't see any rational way to justify him being a main character. And that seems to be the majority opinion.--Jeff 19:24, 19 June 2007 (PDT)

Disagree - All are main characters, Aaron has had more air time then Tom. --Apollo Candy 20:37, 19 June 2007 (PDT)

Whether or not Aaron has appeared more or less than Tom is moot. Neither are main characters.--Jeff 21:09, 19 June 2007 (PDT)


"Can anyone explain to me why they aren't main characters even though they've had flash backs, and drive the narrative without just saying "they aren't main characters"?"

Umm... we have been. They're not listed as the starring cast. If you want this portal representing important characters then RENAME IT TO "IMPORTANT CHARACTERS". Your definition of a main character is greatly flawed. You say those who drive the narrative should be listed, so why isn't Naomi up there? And if you say it's because she hasn't had a flashback, then why was she up on this list before she died? There are too many "exceptions" in your definition. It's not concrete, it's not understandable and it's not correct. Benn 20 June, 2007


I see we are living in a world of pedantic users. So heres the deal. DEFINITION OF A MAIN CHARACTER: 1) Lives on the beach, with the majority of survivors of Flight 815 and/or 2) Has had their own flashback, or has been in a flashback and appears on the beach.

So I will be adding Juliet to the main characters list in due course.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  05:16, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

Just out of curiosity, is this Lostpedia's official definition (if so, where is it from?) or the definition you're using to prove your point?
But as to your actual definiton, the use of "and/or" is ambiguous for the following reasons:
  • If you mean "1) or 2)": All of the background extras (redshirts) become "main characters" by virtue of 1) (because when using the word "or", you only need one criteria to be satisfied).
  • If you mean "1) and 2)": Aaron is not a main character, because he has not appeared in a flashback. Additionally, Vincent becomes a main character, because he satisfies both of those criteria.
If you're going to call me pedantic, that's what I'm going to be. Jimbo the tubby 13:51, 21 June 2007 (PDT)
You see I thought the definition of a main character were the main cast, which includes Ben and Juliet and not anyone who appears with "guest star" before their name. Whether or not they live on the beach or have had a flashback is irrelevant because then Libby, who is obviously a main character, wouldn't have been on the list. We, the majority, can't stress this enough: The main character portal is for the MAIN characters. There is already a survivors page that lists all the flight survivors -- including Rose Bernard, Aaron, the Marshal, Cindy, etc. mixed in with the main cast survivors -- without Desmond, Ben or Juliet. That being said: Lets drop this insipid arugment and let majority rule: Yes to Nikki, Paulo, Ben and Juliet, no to Rose, Bernard and Aaron. Because if this doesn't get solved soon, what's going to happen if Mira Furlan or Tania Raymond or Nestor Carbonell get added to the main cast for season 4, as some rumors have suggested? We'll have the same damn argument on our hands again.--Jeff 14:22, 21 June 2007 (PDT)
Exactly! EXACTLY! By the reasoning that keeps getting stated for including Aaron, you're simply creating a redundant page. Even if you decide to change the name of this page to something like "Series Regulars" it needs to be changed. Why a page with all of the people who are credited under the "Starring" heading at the beginning of the show doesn't exist escapes me, and I believe that "main characters" is the obvious place for this page to go. That was what I was expecting the first time that I searched for "main characters" on Lostpedia. We've been arguing this for over a month, and the majority of people (not a huge majority, but a majority nonetheless) who have commented have wanted it changed. Please remove the redundancy of this page and make it to be what most people are expecting when they first come here. Jimbo the tubby 21:24, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

My personal opinion is that Aaron, Nikki and Paolo are all main characters because I know their names and they do have some sort of backstory. Even though some of the background casts names are known, they are not spoken of widely. Aaron, Nikki and Paolo have actually been talked about by the other survivors and we do see them regularly regardless of whether or notthey have many lines or are dead ( in the case of Nikki and Paolo). I do think this dicussion is getting a bit out of hand from my point of view and for many of the users and viewers of lost, we do see them as main cast whether or not they are series regulars or sometimes guest stars. Just my two cents. DrGiggles 14:01, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

  • Also, as this portal is for main characters, I personally think that some of the others like Ben or Juliet should be considered being added because the have both had a flashback and appear in many episodes. This portal is after all called main characters not survivors of flight 815 (which it looks currently).DrGiggles 14:04, 21 June 2007 (PDT)
  • Disagree - It is not a matter of fan opinion. It's a fact that Rodrigo and Kiele (Paulo and Nikki) were credited as "Main Cast" by Lost. Fan opinions don't matter. As long as they were credited as such once, then they will be included. Aaron is in there by virtue of Claire, who is also main cast. The only gray area is Main Cast who are Others, who we've placed in another Portal. Bernard and Rose are recurring guests, but then again they had their own flashback, whereas for example Sullivan (who hasn't recurred) and Arzt did not. If someone argues that Arzt's (island) FB was intertwined with P&N, and that he even appeared in the Sydney flashbacks in Exodus, I might be willing to listen. . . but P&N were outright Main Cast as per TBTB, not us. Let's face it guys, the hairsplitting constituency of the Portals is not an over-arching issue here for the encyclopedia's usability. -- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T 21:56, 21 June 2007 (PDT)
  • "Aaron is in there by virtue of Claire, who is also main cast." I agree with everything you say except for that (except for R&B, but I'll concede the point due to their flashback episode). I don't follow how being the son of a main character (even if you do appear on-island) makes you a main character. Could you please elaborate on that? As to your final point, I think that Lostpedia becomes less usable as an encyclopedia when the information it contains is poorly categorized: If characters who are not MAIN characters are appearing on the Main Character portal, then the encyclopedic value of Lostpedia is diminished (albeit slightly). So the question at hand is: "Is Aaron a main character?" In my opinion, he is not, by all the arguments I have previously made. Furthermore, all the arguments presented as to why Aaron is a main character really only show that he is an Important Character, which is not the same. Jimbo the tubby 22:14, 21 June 2007 (PDT)
    • Good points about Aaron. I think I agree. I would lump Aaron and Vincent in the same category on second thought. Therefore I'm throwing my opinion behind removing Aaron, and putting him into the supporting portal as he is obviously not a speaking character on the island, and has in fact been depicted by dozens of different interchangeable babies, as well as a doll. Vincent is even more deserving, as he actually plays actions in most of his scenes, whereas Aaron just sits, or has a crying-baby audio track overlaid onto the scene. But Vincent doesn't belong in Main Characters, so neither does Aaron. Some day, if years pass on the island and TPTB cast a boy actor as main cast, then that may change, but for now I agree with you. Also note above that Aaron's place in this portal has not been discussed since May 2006. It's probably time to revisit the little turnip. -- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T 02:03, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
      • Right, I'll try and make this as clear as possible. Could you (Jimbo the Tubby) answer each question individually.
  1. Why was Claire on Flight 815, and therefore why is she on the island?
  2. Why did Ethan try and kidnap Claire?
  3. Which character did Rousseau try to kidnap?
  4. For which character did Claire, Rousseau and Kate trek to the The Staff?
  5. What character was Charlie's visions about baptism about?
  6. Which character apart from Walt has been described as special?
Just because this character is a baby, you've decided that he isn't a main character who is deeply involved in the narrative of the story line, and an important part of the show. He is!
Your arguments for Aaron not being a main character are completely flawed. Aaron has appeared in flashbacks, he might be in his mother at the time, but the whole of Raised By Another is focused upon Aaron and that characters importance on the show.
Your argument is that "Aaron is not a protagonist of the story, the only way in which he supports the storyline is by his existence. He has no motivations, makes no decisions, takes no actions and has no interaction with other characters beyond being held/fed/changed by them. He is, in essence, a prop: much like the dynomite or the button."
He can't have motivation, or make decisions simply because he is a baby. Thats not exactly fair to exclaim that. Your belief is by being a baby he has no impact on the show, the characters and the storyline, which is a great big steaming pile of nonsense. What you need to do is remove Aaron from the show entirely and see what happens. We lose Claire, we lose Claire and Charlie and their relationship. We lose Charlie's motivations for going down to the underwater hatch, we lose Ethan kidnapping Claire, we lose The Staff, huge swathes of storyline involving Rousseau, Alex, the kidnapping, as well as the themes of parenthood and maternity that occur on the island. The whole of Exodus, Part 1 and the reason for going to The Swan. If Claire had lost Aaron during the crash, huge sections of the show would be missing now. Regardless of whether he has the mental, verbal or physical capacity to take part like youths such as Walt or adults such as Jack and Sawyer, Aaron is a major part of the show, whose input as a character is important to the show as a whole, and therefore belongs on the main characters page. To compare Aaron to Marvin Candle or Arzt is to completely miss the story lines and narratives of the show, and to completely ignore the characters impact on the show, which is much larger than every single person on the Supporting Characters portal, and impacts far more people than his own biological grandfather, whose character is probably the most prominent of the supporting characters. I will look into renaming this page, to avoid the pedantic idea that because a character can't control his badder and bowel movements, and cannot talk, that he isn't a main character on the show. I haven't even begun to explain the importance of Rose and Bernard to the story line, regardless on how often they appear in the show. You mix up the status of the cast member with the status of the character, and that is a fatal mistake to make for a Lost fan, because you will dismiss some of the most well written, well rounded and important characters if you do that. I won't be moving Aaron anywhere, nor Rose and Bernard. There isn't consensus on moving these characters either, even though it has been suggested otherwise, further more I am here as part of my role as a SysOp to make sure things that make no sense do not take place. If consensus suggested through the mid-season, that Jack be moved to the Others page, would we have done that?  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  02:33, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
  • Good arguments there Plkrtn. I'm swayed the other way again. I guess I'll reiterate that the issue is not really important. Whether or not Aaron appears on portal A or portal B isn't going to affect the overall Lostpedia experience for the vast majority of users. The users who care about the issue arleady know Aaron exists, and will go looking for him in the other portal, so they'll deal with one more click. Let's leave the portals be. -- C¯ _Santa_ ¯T 02:52, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
Move Jack to the others page? That is honestly ridiculous. If Jack had during season 3 converted to the Others, he wouldn't have been moved from this page to the Others portal, he would BE ON BOTH! Because he would still be a main character, qualifying him for this portal, and an Other, qualifying him for that portal. But he didn't convert, so that whole logic is moot. Honestly, I'm fed up with this argument after much soul searching and seeking the advice of some other people, I've decided I'm no longer taking part in this ridiculous argument. I contribute to plenty of other Lostpedia pages, and I'm just going to focus on those pages. But to Benn, Jimbo and everyone else to whom logic prevails: good luck, I hope you get your way, and I hope it can be resolved peacfully before it degrades into a flame war. Plkrton, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it at all, and just wish you would open your mind a teeny bit to consider what most people expect to see when they click on that link that says main characters. I believe Aaron is more of a plot point than a main character. Yes, if it wasn't for him, Claire wouldn't have gotten on the plane. But does that make him a main character? no. He doesn't have lines, he wasn't portrayed by a contract actor, and is rarely appears more than a few times a season. That is the last I'll say on the matter. See you folks on the other pages.--Jeff 10:16, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
Having no lines comes from the fact that he is a baby, and having multiple actors is because of the age of the character. The shows timeline dictates that the actor has to change, People are confusing the main cast as credited with main characters. Main characters are characters that are important to the show within the shows narrative, not their casting credit. Can people please seperate the character and the actors and their billing, as they are distinctly different. By the logic shown here Boone and Shannon, now billed as special guest stars should be supporting characters.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  13:34, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
The answers to all your questions, plkrtn, as I'm sure you're expecting, is Aaron. So what? I've already conceded that Aaron is important (EXTREMELY important) to the show. That's not in debate. He advances the plot and the characters, that's all well and good. BUT that doesn't make him a main character. The main characters are the ones that the show specifically follows, looking at their actions and the consequences that arrive because of them, which does not apply to Aaron. Please stop putting words in my mouth about how I'm not acknowledging that Aaron is important to the plot and character development, because that's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that the way his character is presented is contrary to what it means to be a main character.
So yes, the fact that Aaron doesn't take any actions is because he's a baby. But the fact that he's not a main character is (partly) because he doesn't take any actions for us to follow. You're also confusing the causality of my argument: characters aren't "main characters" because they appear in the main cast, characters appear in the main cast because they were written to be Main Characters.
Finally, if consensus had suggested that Jack had joined the Others, would he have been added to the Others portal? No. Because such consensus would have been nothing more than speculation. However, if these portals were working as I believe they should, then if Jack had been definitivly shown to have joined the Others, then yes: he would've been added to the Others portal, but he would have also remained on this one. Your example is poor, however, because the consensus that Aaron is a main character is not speculative, it's based on how most users define "main character". As far as the usability of Lostpedia is considered, if most people coming to the Main Characters portal are expecting a portal listing off the main cast of the show, then that's what it should be. Additionally, Boone and Shannon "now billed as special guest stars" would still be on the portal, because they were at one point credited as main cast. If Aaron becomes credited as such for even a single episode, then my arguments here would cease. Jimbo the tubby 13:57, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
Please understand that being credited as main cast is not the same as being a main character. If the list was a main cast list then your argument would make sense but it isn't its about characters, and his importance means he is a main character, regardless of cast credits or dialogue.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  14:21, 22 June 2007 (PDT)
I disagree with you about main cast not being the same as main character, but I'm going to abandon that argument since you seem to find it thoroughly unconvincing. So from now on I shall not bring up cast-status in my arguments. That being said, the main characters of the show are the ones which the show specifically follows. Lost does not follow the story of Aaron, even if he drives the characters around him. Aaron is a plot device which gives other characters and groups motivation, but is not a main character of his own right. This is because Lost is not a story about Aaron in the same way that it is a story about Jack, Kate, Locke, Sawyer, etc... All of these characters follow their own plot lines and character arcs but all that Aaron does is set up these plot lines and character arcs for others to follow (Ethan kidnapping Claire, the Others' raid on the beach, Charlie and Claire's relationship). He drives the story, much in the way that the plane crash or the hatch drive the story, but the story isn't about him. It's about the characters around him and their particular journies. Jimbo the tubby 16:41, 22 June 2007 (PDT)

Plkrtn, you have done nothing besides explain how important Aaron is which still doesn't justify him being a main character. Take a look at these questions:

  1. What sudden event made The Others go into panic and leave 1 day earlier for the beach?
  2. What did Desmond forsee to make him, Charlie, Jin and Hurley trek through the jungle?
  3. The trek to the radio tower wouldn't have happened if it was for which event?
  4. Who did Ben seem very interested in talking to before everyone got to the radio tower?
  5. Who claims to be the one to rescue Desmond?
  6. According to Ben, whose organization has the intention of killing everyone on the Island?

Yes, all the answers revolve around Naomi. By your logic and definition of a main character, she should be on the list. Afterall, she did live on the beach with the survivors albeit a couple of days and drove the storyline, especially in the finale. Fact is, is that you could attain many people to your definition of a main character - some of which might have very little importance to the show. On the other hand, by using the definition of "Main Characters are those who are listed as Starring Characters", you have a technical and concrete guideline with no exceptions. Benn June 23, 2007

There is a vast difference between a character who has been with us since landing on the island, and one that appeared for 6 episodes to further the story line, again more pedantic comments!  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:17, 28 June 2007 (PDT)
Personally, I could go either way with Aaron, but if in the end Aaron does stay on this portal, I think Vincent should be added as well. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 15:16, 23 June 2007 (PDT)
Plkrtn, out of curiosity, if a newcomer to Lost came up to you and asked whether Juliet and Ben were main characters or supporting characters, what would answer with? -- Benn 23 June, 2007
Juliet I would have here, but as Ben is the leader of the Others, he is perfectly suited to the Others category. Please read below for my comments on the name of the portal, which seems to be the issue here. People can't seperate cast status from character status.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:17, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

This argument is going nowhere. The Main Characters page should be turned into a disambiguation page which then lists all the various characters on the show. In addition there should be a separate "Main Cast" page that lists only those people who've been credited as contractual starring actors. Lostpedia is a great resource but too often people bicker on the discussion pages with no resolution. Wrecktum 15:58, 27 June 2007 (PDT)

There is a cast list page already. The discussion here is proposing what constitutes a main character, with people getting things decidedly mixed up between character and cast.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:15, 28 June 2007 (PDT)
There should be a page for series regulars. However, as far as I can see, there is none. The link you gave simply gives a list of various characters, which includes the actors who portray Ethan, Tom, Bea, Danielle and even Rachel Blake who hasn't even appeared on the show. That being said, if you want this page to be about main characters without regard to cast status, I still don't agree that Aaron should be here. Please consider my previous post about Aaron:
  • [...] the main characters of the show are the ones which the show specifically follows. Lost does not follow the story of Aaron, even if he drives the characters around him. Aaron is a plot device which gives other characters and groups motivation, but is not a main character of his own right. This is because Lost is not a story about Aaron in the same way that it is a story about Jack, Kate, Locke, Sawyer, etc... All of these characters follow their own plot lines and character arcs but all that Aaron does is set up these plot lines and character arcs for others to follow (Ethan kidnapping Claire, the Others' raid on the beach, Charlie and Claire's relationship). He drives the story, much in the way that the plane crash or the hatch drive the story, but the story isn't about him. It's about the characters around him and their particular journies.
If, however, the portal were named something more like Beach Camp Residents or somesuch, I would certainly agree that Aaron would belong here.Jimbo the tubby 01:37, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

Not to be the problem child of this topic, but Plkrtn, you still never happened to answer my question of whether you consider Ben a main character or a supporting character. Sure, you established that he is a part of The Others - thanks for that, but I already knew. A newcomer of Lost however wouldn't know who or what The Others are... so, same question: Would you tell a newcomer that Ben is a main character or supporting character? On a side note, I'd agree with a rename of the portal... but when exactly is that going to happen? Benn

Rename Page

I believe we should look at renaming this page and making sure the Portals and categories categorise characters on their affiliation with groups on the Island. So for example, this would become perhaps Survivors, which we could divide into sub sections including 815 Survivors, People on the Island after the crash, Defectors from the Others etc.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:15, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

Agreed, as this would solve the main character debate. Though I would suggest a differant title than "Survivors" because people who join the beach camp after the crash aren't really "survivors". I think something like "Beach Camp Residents" would be more apt, though perhaps more awkwardly worded. However there still ought to be a portal for the main cast. Jimbo the tubby 01:34, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

We need something that isn't quite so awkward, and although survivors doesn't cover those who are there that didn't survive the crash itself, it is primarily their camp, so that makes it easier. We don't need a cast portal we have a category for that, and the cast names are navigable via their character pages. Tho, what we could do is have the character portal include the actor... so it would say "Kate portrayed by Evangeline Lilly" which would fulfill both needs without extra un needed portals.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:21, 28 June 2007 (PDT)
I agree that that name is very clumsy, I just thnk we need something that includes everyone who will be in that portal (and I was hoping someone else would have a better idea than mine). The problem I see with "portrayed by" on every character in the portal is twofold. First, (assuming you're talking about that being on the main page) it's very lengthy and will take up, in my opinion, too much room. Second, not all the characters are important enough to warrant the actor's name to be right next to it on the main page. Do we really need "Dianne portrayed by Roxanne Day"? Further, if we only did it for the characters in the main cast, it becomes inconsistent. Finally, if we do have a main cast page, could you please link me to it? The only thing I can find is this which includes most of the lesser Others and Vincent (Madison), which is not a page for main cast. Whenever I find myself needing a list of the main cast (to make sure I'm not missing anyone), I'm forced to go to Wikipedia because such a page doesn't appear on LP. This is why I think we need a portal to that effect. Perhaps we could vote on it?