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This archive page covers approximately the dates between May 25, 2006 and July 13, 2006.

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Spoiler

Do we still need the spoiler tag up, the episode has already aired?--Meterman 10:29, May 25 2006

Not in the UK it hasnt :)

No, we don't need the spoiler tag. To quote the Main Page, "Lostpedia is updated based on US airings." -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:29, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Theory added

I've added a "nature-of-the-whole-thing" kinda theory to the end of the Theory section. Should i move it into a separate Theory article and list it under Theories?--Orcinus 10:24, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

ignore the theoretical plot line below

I would delete it. It's inaccurate and its presence will only serve to confuse those who have watched the episode and are looking for confirmation for ideas, observations, and hunches.

I strongly disagree. There is a big possibility that this was one of the earlier drafts for the finale. It probably should be moved to a page of its own, but definitely not deleted.

Kelvin is Joe Inman?

Is this confirmed? If so; cool!

No, just theorized because both characters are being played by Clancy Brown.--Isotope23 05:15, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

I read somewhere that he's a twin, I don't recall how reliable the source was, but if there is a 'bad twin' thing going on on the island. Also, Joe Inman was a bit of b*st*rd but Desmond's decription of Kelvin makes him seem, nicer, and he seems (in my memory) to almost reminisce about his relationship with Kelvin.. Could be wrong though, we'll see soon! I was certain we'd see Joe Inman again though, I have a theory he is some sort of DHARMA recruiter or 'temporal engineer' type guy, given the way he said to Sayid "one day you'll need to know something.. and now you'll be able to get it", it makes me think that he was training Sayid for the island. --Rayne 15:39, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

In the episode, he does make the comment to Desmond, "I used to be a spook, I know when someone is following me"...more of a definitive link that the two are the same? PanSavant 22:06, 24 May 2006 (PDT)

And he also made mention he joined Dharma "because men followed him", which would go inline with Joe Inman's military position. I'd say it is a pretty reasonable guess that Joe Inman is the same person as Kelvin and is just using an assumed name for some reason. I'd leave this as a theory though until it is actually confirmed.--Isotope23 05:17, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

He could be Kelvin Joseph Inman. I mean most people with odd first names don't often go by them, and instead use a nickname or their second name. I mean Desmond went by "Des". Penelope as "Pen" etc. "Kel" sounds odd, so maybe he used "Joe". --Circeus 15:14, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I'm quite sure this has been confirmed in the official podcast (May 26th). Kelvin's fullt name was revealed as being Kelvin Joe Inman, which wasn't revealed earlier in the season to prevent a spoiler. --Cleast 13:41, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

I listened to the podcast early today and, indeed, they confirmed both Inmans are the same person and that they called him Joe at first to prevent a spoiler. But the whole "his actual name is Kelvin Joe Inman" sounded more like a joke to me... :-) --CrisDias 20:34, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

The Button

I think that when the clock reaches zero, we'll see the glyphs, hear the cranking, maybe even see the map. Then, my guess is that it'll stop there and say LOST. What do you guys think will actually happen when it hits zero? DeGroot

My theory it's some sort of doomsday device, that triggers a catastrophe whenever the button isn't pushed, with the severity of the catastrophe increasing each time? It seems to me that the button is meant to be pushed by someone who is aware I bet that a machine could easily be setup to 'push the button' if it was neccesary. So for some reason it is necessary to have people do it either - it's an experiment or - it's designed so that in certain circumstances, the button isn't pushed. If you get me.. I don't know if we'll see anything.. I hope we do though, that button has been confusing me since we first saw it.

We all know that some great unveiling will be about to occur when we get hit in the face by 'LOST'.--Rayne 15:39, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

Isotope23! SPOILER TAG! --Keyes 08:40, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

I still like my original theory from way back. If the button isn't pushed, all the hatches get locked down and some electromagnetic machine spins up and effectively screws up the instrumentation on any plane or boat in the area, causing it to crash on the island. This is how Darhma gets their new "lab rats" to experiment on.--Stew Erickson 05:56, 22 May 2006 (PDT)

Interesting theory...--Isotope23 07:08, 22 May 2006 (PDT)

But Desmond has been down there for sometime now (what was it, three years?). And he has been pushing the button every 108 minutes. So how could the plane crash be caused by someone not pushing the button if he pushed the button? Jericho

Edit. Hahaha! Well that certainly proved me wrong! And just to prove my ignorance, they killed my three favorite characters! Touche, Lost, touche! Jericho 11:16, 24 May 2006 (EST)

YES! I knew it! :P --Stew Erickson 04:05, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Possible Plot Outline

I removed this from the main page because, frankly, the show hasn't aired yet so this is all theoretical. If it had been presented as theory, I'd have kept it on the main page, however it is presented as if it's fact and therefore might be misleading appearing on an episode page... --Xsg 16:29, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

P.S. - To whoever wrote this... If it turns out to be true, thank you so much! I wrote up the plot for the last episode... it takes hours of work to do this. --Xsg 21:58, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

Please note that the legitimacy of this plot outline is disputed.

Survivors think they are being rescued when they see a boat. Jack swims out to the boat. Desmond is inside the bunker. They bring him ashore. Desmond has tons of booze with him, and a dark secret. Jack asks him where he was, and what he did.... During the 23 days he was gone, Desmond managed to fix his sailboat and sail off the island. Jack asks him what he isn't telling them.

We get FLASHBACKS of Desmond's life before the island, and when he first crashed there. Notable points here would be that Desmond was married to a girl named Penny, Libby was married to Charles Widmore, and Desmond borrowed Libby's boat for 200 grand for his race around the world. Kelvin finished the glow-in-the-UV-light map in the hatch; his original partner started it. And Kelvin is, or was, the twin of a certain Joe Inman, CIA man from Sayid's flashbacks. We see Kelvin drag Desmond to the hatch, type in the numbers and press the button, show Desmond the film, and Desmond begins pushing the button as well.

Present day: At night, Jack and Sayid come up with a plan involving Desmond's boat. Desmond disappears off into the jungle, heading for the hatch. The next day, Jack and gang load up to go. The 5 survivors depart. Charlie tells Hurley good luck. Michael leads them off. In the hatch, Eko continues to push the button. Locke enters and they talk. Locke laughs that he still pushes the button. Eko says he is a man of faith. Jack Kate Michael Sawyer and Hurley make their way though the jungle. They begin to pass though what Hurley says is the Dark Territory. There are MANY fallen trees around them. They camp for the night. Michael talks about how these people have harmed the survivors, particularly the 5 of them. He talks about how they killed Shannon, Libby, etc. Locke and Eko are having their discussion in the hatch. Locke argues with Eko on how he thought this place was destiny, that the island built him up just to knock him down, and how it is all an experiment. Locke tells him he plans to see what happens when the button reaches zero once and for all. He wants to make sure he is right. Eko doesn't agree with this. Desmond reaches the hatch and talks with Locke and Eko inside. He seems pissed. He asks Locke if he continued to push the button, to which Locke says yes. Desmond doesn't believe Locke.

Atop one of the hills, Jack and gang find a big pile of tubes from the Pearl hatch. Michael tells them they aren't far now and they must keep going. He leads them to the the spot where Zeke and The Others captured him. They begin to hear whispering. LOTS of it this time. Jack yells out that it's a trap when he spots one of them in the trees. They all open fire, it seems as if they are surrounded. There is another lockdown inside the hatch. We don't know why, but could this be some sort of final test? Locke is trapped inside the geodome with Desmond. Eko is locked out. Eko yells at Locke that he can't let the timer reach zero, but Locke has other ideas. The timer is at 107 minutes. Bernard talks with Claire and the baby, inquiring on what the vaccine is for. Claire explains to him, they bond. Sayid talks with Jin and Sun. He formulates a plan with Jin. Sun translates for him. Jin understands. Eko seeks Charlie's help on the situation in the hatch. He rushes to the beach and tells him they need to go gather the dynamite Charlie knows where it is. In the Hatch, Desmond and Locke argue about the button. Locke tells Desmond the button is not real, that it was all an experiment of the Dharma Initiative. Desmond screams at him, "Don't tell me it isn't real!"

Desmond tells Locke that he sailed away from the island, and was going to get them all rescued. But when he reached land, he discovered THERE WAS NO HUMANITY left. Desmond says that the entire world was not there. There was absolutely nothing. He believes that the button is to blame, recalling what the original Dharma film said. Locke is shaken by this, but thinks Desmond is crazy. The timer is at 43 minutes by now. Eko and Charlie gather dynamite from the stash and run to the hatch. Eko plans to blow the blast door. Charlie thinks he's off his rocker. Eko believes Desmond that the timer DOES do something when it reaches zero.

Meanwhile Jack and gang are all been captured by The Others. They are being led back to the village. Jin and Sayid have taken Desmond's boat and followed Rousseau's map along the shoreline to where Sayid believes the location of The Others could be. They spot the giant rock with the hole in it. Sayid sneaks up along the rocks with his gun, Jin trails him. To make it short, they interrupt the party and attack The Others. A fight ensues. Sawyer fights Zeke, and rips his fake beard off. SAYID IS SHOT, straight in the chest and falls back into the water. As chaos ensues in the camp, Michael sneaks up to the door in the cliff. There's a Dharma symbol resembling a door. One of the guards blocking the door is shot. Michael enters in and closes it behind him. Inside this room is the BIG reveal.

Back at the hatch, the timer is at 23 minutes. Eko and Charlie enter in with the dynamite. Locke and Desmond argue inside as the timer counts down past 15 minutes, 8 minutes, and 4 minutes. The beeping starts up loudly. Eko blows the blast doors; Charlie is knocked against the cement wall, unconscious. Eko runs in to push the button before the time runs out. Locke has knocked Desmond out unconscious with Eko's Jesus stick. Locke and Eko come to fists. Locke beats Eko to the ground. He takes the stick and SMASHES THE COMPUTER. It's busted, so now there's no stopping the timer. At the Others camp, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley seem to have overpowered The Others. Inside The Door, Michael finds Walt but is confronted by the FAKE HENRY GALE. Fenry tells Michael everything about what he is seeing right now, which involves three other people, the plane crash, Hanso, and a key. There's a SINGLE monitoring TV inside this room as well. It's a monitor for Station 3, The Swan. Fenry tells Michael that he needs to leave the island now if he wants to escape with Walt. The boat is ready for him at a back exit. The timer at the hatch reaches ZERO, and something does happen. Michael and Walt watch what happens as they escape the island with the boat, leaving everyone else behind. If we are to believe Desmond, they will find nothing else left.

Source: [1]

--Dow lord 16:11, 24 May 2006 (PDT) Nice theory, but I think Eko will use use the dynamite for the magnetic part of the hatch, hence him discovering it in Three Minutes.

Wow i'm surprised how similar that is to the real plot and yet so very wrong in many places, like sayid getting shot. I'm very curious how this info was aquired. BastionKane

Yeah I was thinking that too as I was watching the episode... some stuff was right, but much was completly off. The stuff that was correct was by and large content that was featured in promos, oficial blurbs on the episode, or leaked as spoilers elsewhere. My guess is someone saw an advance copy of the promo and pieced this together with existing spoiler info, then filled in the blanks with guesses (incorrect guesses at that).--Isotope23 05:15, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I added the last part of the plot where we see the scientists calling miss widmore... My english isn't that good and feel free to edit it to make it more correct -- Bramme 05:14, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Key

Does anybody else think that there's a small inconsistency in the fact that Desmond had no problem insterting the key into the failsafe device, despite the fact that it appeared to be a standard metal key? Shouldn't it have been ripped out of his hand by the intense electromagnetic pull that yanked the device's cover away as soon as he opened it? -TDK 06:16, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Maybe so. But perhaps the key was made of metal resistant to magnetic charges, or of a different polarity, or something. Rickyrab 06:27, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Like aluminum, stainless steel, etc. Many common metals are not attracted to magnetic fields. --Mramsey 06:32, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Eko's cross was clearly gold. And gold is not attracted by magnetism. Well unless its really crappy gold I suppose. Which is possible considering its source (Nigeria). As for the key, the top (logo part) seemed to be ceramic, its possible the rest of the key was too. --Circeus 15:17, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I might have thought it an inconsistency if the failsafe had not been designed specifically to be used during a period of high-powered magnetic activity. Only the most foolish of engineers / craftsmen would make such a key out of something that would be magnetically attracted - especially considering the keyhole's protective covering was torn off its hinges because of the attraction as Desmond opened it.-- Kislev 13:30, 29 May 2006 (PDT)

The Researchers

Is there anyone who can say for sure that these men speak portuguese??? -- Bramme 06:42, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

My fiancee (who was born and raised in Ukraine/Russia) said it was Russian. --Just me :-) 07:26, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Definitely Portuguese. It sounded like Portuguese spoken in mainland Portugal, vice Portugese from the Azores Islands or Brazilian Portuguese. Maybe a little bit of Angolan (Angola is an old Portuguese colony) inflection, but I couldn't quite ascertain this. My guess is the actors are from Lisbon. --Oedipus 09:26, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

It is Portuguese, but there are some basic grammar errors. According to IMDB they are Americans, so their accent is just "American" :-) : Alex Petrovitch and Len Cordova. --CrisDias 19:47, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I am Portuguese and from Lisbon. They are American I guess - for they made some basic grammar errors nothing much though - but their accent is brazilian 100% sure.--Silva 03:51, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

No... that accent is not Brazilian. And since we Brazilians think the accent is from Portugal it kinda shows the accent is "from nowhere". Most like it is "I don't actually speak Portuguese but I have a dialect coach" accent. :-)

Being from Portugal I can say 100% sure that they speak what they want to pass for B.P.(Brazilian Portuguese), I know people from all around the Portuguese ex-colonies and know their accents well. Although its not well done its supposed to be B.P., from expressions like "tá quebrado" "fazendo" and the constant "seu" "sua", expressions much more frequent in B.P. Lets just say their techer was Brazilian.

on a footnote, the one who resembles Jack seems to be speaking Italian before he calls Penelope.

After re-listening to the scene and finding out that the actors are American, I finally picked up on some subtleties that tells me that they're definitely coached. Well, I guess that's why they're professional actors. Even the so-called authentic Portuguese and Brazilian posters (including myself) were fooled into thinking they were actual native speakers that just didn't get it right. The truth is they're non-native speakers who almost got it entirely right! --Oedipus 09:26, 15 June 2006 (PDT)

Walt

I could be wrong, but did Faux Henry say/imply that they got more than they bargained for when they picked up Walt? That could be why they're sending him away. He's too powerful (psychic or whatever) for them to experiment on, but he's still untrained, so he's not a danger to anyone outside.

--Jujo 09:50, 25 May 2006 (EST)

That is what I got out of it too. Others have said that the bargain was trading Walt for 3 losties. But it sounded to me like the Others felt Walt was too much. --Snarf 19:36, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yeah. I imagine the Others do not want or cannot use Walt and will not or cannot kill him. Because they prefer not to leave their "home", they use Michael not only to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley, but to expunge Walt from their environment. The Others may know the survivors could eventually use Walt against them, otherwise. In that scenario, poor Michael is being doubly used. --Spliznork 22:14, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I got that Walt has the ability to be two places at once, so it doesn't matter if Walt is also with Michael... —XSG 20:39, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

White glow - explosion - sound whatever

shouldn't there be a new page about the explosion, with some separate theories and stuff? -- Bramme 07:00, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yeah, defiently. But what to call it?--Piscez 07:02, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I would suggest "The Discharge" or maybe the fail safe? isn't there allready a page called fail safe??? let's have a look -- Bramme 07:08, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yes there is: Fail Safe though the original writer presumes it has smth to do with the explosion... Maybe go for discharge? and we can merge it later? -- Bramme 07:09, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The sound of the white glow and the reaction of the characters look very similiar to the one at the Final Countdown (movie), could it be that the White Glow, as in the Philadelphia Experiment, have a time travel effect?--Akela12:01, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

It's entirely possible. After all Carlton Cuse was a creator and writer on Brisco County, a cult favorite cowboy show that involved time travel. --Circeus UTCE 21:08, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

The Listening Station?

We should create a page for the Portuguese guys in the artic/antartic listening station, but I can't think of a name for it. We don't know where it is, or who they are. Maybe just wait for the official podcast and see how they refer to it?--Piscez 07:01, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Go ahead and create the article, maybe call it listening station. We can rename it if we learn the name next season. Mescad 07:03, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Hot blooper

Near the end of the episode in the scene on the Pala Ferry when Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer are on their knees and tied up, Alex proceeds to pick up Kate. Alex accidentally grabs Kate's breasts, then you can see her laugh as she quickly readjusts her hands. I must have re-watched this scene about 10 times just to make sure. Not to mention, it's a pretty hot thought...--oedipus 09:32, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

BUSTED I made a screencap out of it ;) -- Bramme 15:02, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Theory - Alex is a lesbian! :D Advance 17:24, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Hey, check Alexes posture in that screen capture. She's got pretty good form for the deadlift, best I can tell, bum could go down a little more though. It seems that there's a personal trainer somewhere on the set making sure she doesn't get hurt lifting the young Miss Lilley off her knees for multiple takes - if necessary.... begging the question, is the boob grab just a first take mistake, or is it intentional? I think it's a first take mistake personally. Octothorn 10:52, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

No theories or mention of the green bird encounter?

Seems an odd omission

• See The Bird.

Portuguese Translation

• I added something that the subtitles didn't show in the final scene. Being from Brazil and all, I'd say my portuguese is pretty good. It's in the notes section. I think I'll also add it to the listening station article. --Mothmanbr 12:07, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Letters

As I mentioned in the Discoveries-section of Live Together, Die Alone, it seems that the letters by the Portuguese technician's computer terminal [2] are identical to Desmond's letters which Charles had intercepted. The only exception seems to be that they are not addressed to anyone (yet). Any theories on this? --Lint 21:15, 25 May 2006 (CET)

• Indeed, and not only that: when one of the technicians is looking for something in the manual, there are at least two ISBNs visible on that frame. And there is a also a document under a mug just above the manual he is looking into. It would be really interesting if someone could provide clean screen-captures of that frame :) -- Isilando 20:28, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

• Here is another picture: one of the Portuguese technician's code book desk, on which one clearly can observe another letter, and that document placed under the mug. [3] --Lint 11.52:15, 26 May 2006 (CET)

• The letters appear to have been postmarked already, judging from the light circle on the top one. Does anybody else see this? Or do they not postmark letters this way in the UK? --kathryn 21:07, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

• It seems that the return address is to Desmond Hume. It is fuzzy, but it works.

Time of System Failure?

What was the time of the system failure on 09/22/04?

4:16 --Amberjet11 15:04, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Where'd you get that from? -- Ramirez Selvarn 15:04, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The number that Desmond indicated was 092204416. 09/22/04 was the date, 4:16 was the time. --Amberjet11 15:06, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

But it was day when the plane crashed. Besides, didn't every entry end with ":16"? -- Ramirez Selvarn 15:06, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

There is a screenshot here:

http://humpys.net/images/s2/planecrash.jpg

The number actually ends 044:16.

There's another number in the picture that ends 0410:52.

And here's another screenshot from ? showing that not all the numbers end in 4:16:

http://humpys.net/images/s2/printlog.jpg

--Amberjet11 15:10, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I see. but 4:16 where? -- Ramirez Selvarn 15:12, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

If the number that Desmond was looking at said 0922044:16, as indicated in the first picture, that means the time was 4:16. --Amberjet11 15:21, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Now wait a second... the "dates" on the printing from ? (second screencap) do not follow the same mask as the ones from Live Together, Die Alone (first screencap). First, there are too many digits in the second screencap. Second, it would have entries from as far as 2008... --CrisDias 17:33, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Could this simply be a production continuity error? Yet it seems too obvious to have been missed by those who are supposed to be responsible for continuity, especially since they know the scrutiny that even word and deed of the script is subjected to. Desmond is supposed to be looking at the same computer print-out that Eko took from the Pearl hatch. The second screencap above (as seen in the hatch sequence) has a indecipherable code that is clearly not a time-stamp. But a time of 4:16 (PM?) would be out of synche with the departure time and flight time of Oceanic 815. Also wouldn't one expect a computer to use 16:16 for 4:16PM to distinguish it from 04:16 (AM). Likewise, the month code. Shouldn't it more properly be 09, so that the spacing is preserved? All these "errors" would be uncharacteristic for LOST writers. --Bkkpm 05:48, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

There could even be more of a continuity error here than first appears. If we calculate back from 16:16 in 108 minute intervals we get 14:28 and 12:40 prior to the 10:52 that is visible in the first screencap. Except the buzzer begins to sound at 104 minutes into the 108 minute countdown. The Losties never let the count get too close to 0 so the actual interval is more like 104-106 minutes elapsed time. Seemingly, the computer would record the actual time of the number series entry and not precisely 108 minute intervals. Using 106 minute intervals and counting back from 16:16 gets you to 10:58. Does anyone have a screencap with more time stamps visible? --Bkkpm 03:44, 27 June 2006 (PDT)

There is even one more time-related descrepancy. Only a few facts are provided in the storyline about the flight of 815. Putting aside flight paths, cruising speed and triangulation for now, let's look only at the elapsed time. If indeed as Desmond purports, it was 16:16 on the isle at the time of the system failure and that that coincides with the time of the 815 crash, then does that help pin-point the timezone of the isle? Unfortunately not. We are told by the pilot that 815 was in the air for 8 hours (6 hrs 'til radio failure + 2 hrs on the diverted course). If 815 departed Sydney at 14:55 after 8+ hrs it was about 23:16 in Sydney when the plane crashed. Sydney is GMT+10. When it is 23:16 in Sydney it is 16:16 in the GMT+3 timezone = the Middle East and Eastern Europe! Whao!--Bkkpm 05:00, 27 June 2006 (PDT)

Could it be that the computer isn't running on "island time"? It could be operating with the timezone of wherever DHARMA is run from. Assuming the plane crashed at 23:16 Sydney time, that would put it at 04:16 in Alaska Time (GMT -9 hrs) if my calculations are correct. In fact, Sydney would be observing Daylight Saving at the time, which would push 04:16 back into the Hawaii time zone!! EDIT: I've just realised the island is very nearly in Hawaii time, so there goes that idea. --Dbruce 15:02, 28 July 2006 (PDT)

I grant that the 4AM (04:16; GMT-9) makes a bit more sense in terms of time zones than does 4PM (16:16; GMT+3). However, the crash of 815 clearly took place in broad daylight. It is hardly even dawn, much less day, at 4AM any place in the world! Indeed, it would seem that unless the writers have made a significant error in continuity, the time zone of the computer print-out is still a mystery.--Bkkpm 23:15, 17 August 2006 (PDT)

Call me crazy, but what if the Sept. 22nd System Failure somehow messed up the count in the Pearl's computer?--Loki 20:30, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Dave == David?

Someone wondered if Hurley's Dave could be Libby's David. --Recurr 14:35, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

...Dave is a hallucination. -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:35, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

It's an awesome theory. She could have projected him into hurley's mind somehow, since she was around during both times we saw Dave around. -- [Ernest] 14:55, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

She wasn't constantly near Hurley in Santa Rosa, that we've seen. And when Hurley followed Dave into the Jjungle, we don't know she was nearby. Besides, that assumes Libby can "project into Hurley's mind", a totally unsubstantiated and implausible theory. -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:58, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The theory is that Libby's David was on the thingie Hurley made collapse and he was one of the people who died. He then later started thinking how he imagined Dave, who was smth like a ghost chasing him...

This seems very unreal to me, as it would have probably been mentioned by Hurley's shrink. -- Bramme 15:00, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I think she fantasized about being married to Hurley, so she pretended he was her husband David. And when Hurley got better, her "husband" died. --Amberjet11 15:22, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

So you are saying Libby had a crush on Hurley, wanted to marry him and thought up David, who she was married to but was an impersonation (or however you write that) of Hurley... She wanted to marry Hurley so bad, she thought up David... Smth like that... But then how the hell does it happen that Hurley sees Libby's halucinations... -- Bramme 03:01, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

That's not what I'm saying. When she was in the hospital, she most likely heard Hurley and his shrink talking to or referring to Dave. She fantasized about marrying Hurley, so she imagined that Dave was her husband (who would probably be her idealized version of Hurley, and one who knew that she existed). When Hurley left the hospital, "David" died. She may also have thought that if she mentioned her husband's name was "Hugo Reyes", Desmond might've recognized it since he was on TV for winning the lottery (not sure if it was about that time), or that he could actually be looked up. I'm not saying that Hurley sees Libby's hallucinations. Libby adopted Hurley's hallucination as her own, probably not even knowing what Dave was supposed to look like. --Amberjet11 09:56, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

As for the Dave = David theory, I like it. I don't think that Dave is 100% for sure a halucination. Check out the images on the Imaginary Dave page... Perhaps the polaroid really WAS tampered with??? I personally think that the LOST writers made the polaroid a little different to allow hardcore fans to theorize and to leave the door open to reintroduce Dave at a later date. --Cleast 16:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Sayid's Location

Just before Michael, Hurley, Kate, Jack, and Sawyer are captured by the others in the clearing, Sayid's signal fire is seen, suggesting that he is on the beach. However, later, when The Discharge takes place, he is shown to be on the boat with Jin and Sun.

-- Shaun

Are we sure that Sayid actually set the fire? He'd had time to investigate the site and realize that an ambush was happening somewhere else, why would he start a fire at all? Maybe that was the monster that we were supposed to see and not realize, from the podcast...--Beardog4314 11:08, 14 June 2006 (PDT)

He was on the Sailboat because Jack, Michael etc. never came so you he paddle back to the sailboat. --CaptainInsano

Awsome Power of Magnets.

Was a little anti-climatic, Desmonds reveal about him possibly bringing down 815. Something that was long considered as possible in the discussions here.

But a lovely twist that Locke's original idea was right about the importance of the Button and Eko's guess that the Pearl was fake and that the Swan was real.

--MRNasher

Though, Desmond bringing down flight 815 does not account for the flight already being 1000 miles off course. --Spliznork 00:02, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I think the EMP theory is a good one. EMP's have more effect when higher in the air then on land... It could well be that the plane was allready offcourse, and then brought down by the EMP, however, this doesn't explain how come the plane broke in 2 in mid air... -- Bramme 02:59, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Wellll... An EMP will cause damage to electrical systems. I guess planes have things with lots of coils of wire in them, like motors for doing all sorts of things, and electronics to control them. A sufficiently large EMP could cause a motor to malfunction. How about if something in the cargo malfunctioned and caused physical damage, weakening the airframe from underneath, and caused it to bend downward? The big question though is if it was an EMP, why did so much electrical equipment survive? Octothorn 11:24, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

So what was "The Challah"?

Was it the moment that Locke realized he was wrong about the button? --Amberjet11 15:03, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

• I think it was the final scene where it is essentially insinuated that Penelope Widmore has a team of Portugese scientists monitoring for electromagnetic disturbances. The twist is that apparently at least one person on the outside is aware enough of the island to know that an electromagnetic disturbance could be coming from there... and presumably that Desmond is somehow involved.--Isotope23 12:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Portuguese man in Orange Jacket

Wait, he looks VERY familiar... isn't that Jack? --Brookshoal 18:25, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

That is Len Cordova, as noted in the credits. --CrisDias 19:53, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I still think he was chosen due to their remarkable resemblance, probably something related to the Bad Twin

Desmond caused the crash - red herring?

I wonder if too much faith is being put into the theory that Desmond's "system failure" caused the crash of Oceanic 815. As I remember it, he only says "I think I may have caused your plane to crash". He found a pattern of numbers in the log that could be interpreted as the date of the crash but other numbers in the log can not be interpreted as dates using the same format.

There is so much discussion elsewhere here about the island, or the Others, or DHARMA, placing people on the flight so that they would end up on the island. The Desmond/Kelvin incident at the boat which leads up to the system failure, however, doesn't have the feel of a setup. Kelvin would have had to orchestrate the event precisely to have Desmond follow him and then return at exactly the right time for the system failure to coincide with Oceanic 815 being nearby. --Mramsey 09:08, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Also, the producers stated prior to the episode airing that one of the big reveals will be the answer to why the plane crashed--Bernini 09:27, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Yep, I agree that it should not be stated as a fact anywhere on those pages. It is a really controversial matter and, in fact, there are more clues to cancel rather than support that opinion.
-- Isilando 09:32, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

That's why it's here, not the main page. If it was in fact Desmond's system failure, I'd say the Dharma Recruiter concept is very weak. I'll buy that all these somewhat connected people end up on the plane coincidentally and that the magnetic event is just another coincidence - but not that the 815 passengers were brought together on purpose AND the crash was orchestrated. OR... What if the producers just set us up for a whole new crash cause in the fall? The date format on the Pearl log still needs to be explained. --Mramsey 15:40, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

The Dharma recruiter concept is weak. It's all speculation. The producers stated they were going to explain the cause of the crash in the finale. Then, there was a cause of the crash given in the finale. I think that pretty much sums up the direct cause of the crash. Could there have been indirect causes? Yes, but the discharge is what ripped the plane apart midair.--Bernini 15:52, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

• I agree that the "Dharma Recruiter" theory is weak, but =the fact that the crash was not engineered isn't neccessarily fatal to it. After all, Malkin (assuming he's a psychic and not a recruiter - which admittedly takes away our best reason for believing in recruiters) knew that something odd was going to happen to that plane (and that Claire was going to survive); that's why he insisted she had to take that flight. The Dharma Initiative might have been privvy to the same psychic information, and known that this particular plane was going to crash on the island. Thus, they could concentrate on getting the people they need to onboard, without needing to worry about their arrival. But as I say, I don't like the whole idea of recruiters. --Wintermute 09:55, 7 July 2006 (PDT)

I completely agree that the "Desmond caused the crash" idea is speculation at this point. I did some edits to the first few sections of Push the Button because the orignal text was written under the assumption that a) Pushing the button is definitely and exclusively meant to "diffuse electromagnetic build up," b) Desmond definitely caused the crash and c) Not pushing the button = disaster. None of this has been proven. It's highly doubtful that the button is exclusively (or is at all) concerned with preventing a massive electromagnetic disaster, because I don't think that that is all there is to it. Not to mention, it's highly unlikely that Dharma (assuming Dharma is in control, which is a HUGE maybe) would allow people (esp. people not working for them) to be in control of such an important activity. The fact that The Pearl is unmanned, and that the filled notebooks were being dumped in a field (apparently for a long time) supports this. --Cleast 15:59, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

How can you say it's highly doubtful? What evidence, as opposed to speculation, do you have or have we seen that makes it seem that it is merely a coincidence that the crash occurred at roughly the same time as Desmond's system failure, and that overrides the producers comments: "We are going to tell you why the plane crashed, Lost executive producer Carlton Cuse tells Newsweek of the season finale. "We're going to explain what happens if you don't push the button. "--Bernini 16:09, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I didn't say that it's highly doubtful that Desmond caused the plane crash. I said that it's highly doubtful that the button is exclusively used to prevent electromagnetic disasters. I agree that the plane crash and the system failure happening on the same day is not a coincidence, but do you REALLY think that the writers would allow it to be that simple?? It's still speculation on Desmond's part. Think unrelaibale narrator (although he's not a narrator, but same concept). And NO, we didn't learn what happens when the button isn't pushed, really, because the failsafe was activated, so we can't say that the light and sound was exclusively due to either the button not being pushed or the failsafe being activated. --Cleast 16:30, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

We do know what happens when the button isn't pushed. What we don't know is the ultimate result of the button not being pushed without the fail-safe being activated. We also know what caused the plane to crash. The story confirmed this information and the producers confirmed this information - therefore is should be considered confirmed for the purposes of the wiki.--Bernini 16:37, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I agree that we know what happens between the button not being pushed and the fail-safe being activated. This needs to be clarified in Push the Button (as I noted a moment ago in the discussion). I agree that the system failure probably "caused" the plane to crash... However, it needs to be reflected in the wiki that a) it isn't clear that this is necessarily due to an electromagnetic disturbance, given that we don't know enough about that from the show yet, and b) that there might be other factors involved. I'm not disagreeing with you or the show's producers. I'm just saying that in order to create a complete article, the fact that things are still at least somewhat ambiguous needs to be made clear. --Cleast 17:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

325

Interesting post from brokenbroken at TWOP.

Ok, don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I'm relatively sure that Henry Gale tells Michael to head at a barring of Mark 3-2-5 (correct me if i'm wrong).The Bible, Mark 3:25 says: "If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." this is exactly what Henry Gale has been doing to the Lostaways in regards to the manipulation of Michael. with a quote so specific, maybe the Others are a group of religious zealots. they are "the good guys" after all.

It is likely an intentional reference by the writers that goes hand in hand with the "Live Together, Die Alone" theme of this episode (and segues into the broad theme they've indicated will be the focus of season 3).--Isotope23 11:55, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Though it should be pointed out that in rewatching the episdode, Henry says "bearing 325" not "bearing MARK 325"...--Isotope23 08:56, 30 May 2006 (PDT)

Locke banging on hatch door - Repetition!

When Desmond hears Locke banging on the hatch, Locke is saying a lot of out of place stuff.

"This was supposed to work."
Screaming from when his father took his kidney in the car.
"Why?"
"He wouldn't do this to me."
"I've done everything you wanted me to do, so why did you do this? Why?"

The bolded words are exactly the same sound clips. So, is this an editing mistake, or something else?

Vincent

Is it just me, or is it kind of wierd that Walt doesn't even say anything about Vincent? When Micheal got to see Walt in "Three Minutes", the first think Walt asked was "How's Vincent?". I just think it's wierd that Walt isn't the least bit concerned about his beloved dog.

• He didn't really have much time to say anything, they were kind of busy getting away. --ChiperSoft 20:30, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
• Plus there was a lot going on. Remember Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer were knealing at gunpoint with hoods on their heads. He may have been more worried about that. --Beardog4314 11:35, 14 June 2006 (PDT)

Elizabeth whispers

No one has made mention of the whispers that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, and Michael heard when they were captured. It seemed very clear to my friends and I that they said "Elizabeth". Any thoughts? --ChiperSoft 20:30, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

That's what I hear --Corrosionx 23:45, 29 May 2006 (PDT)

Talk:Whispers#Season_2_Final
-- Isilando 03:24, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Two Jacks?

From the Lost SP Times article currently linked on the Main page, theory 3, "One of the Russian observers at the end of the show was played by Matthew Fox, leading to the possibility of an 'Island Jack' and a 'Parallel Universe Jack.' Evidence: The Russian really does look like Matthew Fox in screen grabs from the episode and in a closeup ABC posted on its media site."

I have not seen the "Two Jacks" theory mentioned here, and have made an image for comparison:

--Spliznork 12:27, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Perhaps nevermind. In the 26 May 2006 Lost Podcast, they indicate it is definitely not Matthew Fox. --Spliznork 12:49, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

You could also notice on that page that all ideas are obsolutely ludicrous and derisory :-) Even the article writer mentions it: "Eight cockamamie theories about Lost." ([cockamamie])
-- Isilando 12:57, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

It's not Fox. If you look at IMDb's page for this episode, they credit Len Cordova and Alex Petrovich as the technicians ("Man #1" and "Man #2"). IMDb page -- Picayune76 15:26, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

Even so, just for the record, in the face of all the other evidence, that guy looks totally like Matthew Fox: same nose, same chin, same mouth, same eyebrows, etc. --Spliznork 23:25, 29 May 2006 (PDT)

Nope, check the earlobes. This guy has neat little rounded ones, but Matthew Fox has ones that taper down his jawline. Octothorn 09:31, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Uh, just for the record, they're not Russian, but Brazilian. Indech 10:38, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

I thought they were Portugeuse?! --Nickb123 10:33, 3 June 2006 (PDT)

also the producers deny this in the last podcast Brian 14:23, 15 June 2006 (PDT)

Sawyer's aim

did Sawyer really take down an Other with an AK from that distance? Kudos, bro. --djumbrosia 15:46, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Yes, he did.--Tricksterson 07:02, 17 June 2006 (PDT)

Listening station debate

Does anyone object to simply removing the theory that The Listening Station scene is a flashback? There's no basis for it and the producers have pretty much confirmed the (already fairly obvious) fact that it was in the present. I think the "Listening Station was a flashback" theory isn't even really a "theory," but rather just the dying gasps of the Purgatory Theorists. Picayune76 15:12, 28 May 2006 (PDT)

• I completely agree. Mothmanbr 09:06, 29 May 2006 (PDT)

Discharge vs. Not pushing the button

Some people seem to confuse the magnetic overcharging result of not entering the numbers, and the discharge that happens when the fail-safe is activated. The plane crash could not have been caused by the discharge (or fail-safe) because Desmond didn't turn the key that time, he managed to enter the numbers, and the plane crashed. --Corrosionx 23:50, 29 May 2006 (PDT)

• Or the magnet finished doing its thing and then reset itself, and Desmond's frantic number-entering did nothing--Jujo 09:23, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

Snowglobe explained

If the Island has a "dark side and a light side", and has magnetic anomolies, and navigation is difficult, and navigating by compass results in the appearance of being in a "snowglobe" then perhaps the island itself is operating like a giant bar magnet, with a north pole and a south pole that are strong enough in the local area to overwhelm the natural poles of the earth.

If this were the case, then the only way to get out of the island would be to set a compass bearing that acocunts for the combined effect of both poles (natural and local) AND you must leave from a predetermined point on the island. Actually, if the poles are on the island or span the island, then there are two points, but if the poles are to one side of the island, then there is only one point on the island itself that you can leave from while following the same compass bearing and get away from the island.

If you leave from a point to the north of the ideal point, but follow the proper bearing, you will circle (actually more likely spiral, but only do a partial loop) around the top of the northern pole of the bar magnet believing you are following the same bearing the whole time. The same thing would happen to the south. The nearer one is to the ideal point the longer it would take to complete the circuit, but the more likely it is that you would get far enough away from the island that the natural magnetic field of the earth will take over and you are away

Those with a basic understanding of the principles of magnetism and bar magnets will find that this makes some sort of sense. I would like to draw a diagram for this, but do not want to spend the time doing so.

(I am a physicist)

I have been wondering why people can't get away by navigating by the stars. It seems too easy to miss. It's not like the night sky is invisible. In fact, if you sit still and keep an eye on a star in relation to a fixed object, like a flagpole, it's easy to see which direction the stars are turning, and where the south or north poles are in a few minutes. I'm not suggesting doing this last thing on a boat, but to do it on the island so as to get the bearings for true north and south.

By the way, can anyone explain to my why Desmond couldn't have entered the numbers after Locke smashed the screen. It's not like most people even look at the screen while typing.

Octothorn 09:21, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Could this page be condensed?

Is it just me or could this article be shortened a bit. I mean the theories section seems very overdone, with some relating to e.g. the statue, or Liddy Wales which could easily just be put in their respective personal articles. Otherwise this page will probably stay on the cleanup list until something is done to make it more concise. What do people think? --Nickb123 10:37, 3 June 2006 (PDT)

I did some work on the page and put in Acts for Part II and did some edit to make it much more like the Episode Structure. Hope it helps-Buckleynut

I'm working on it right now. -- Ramirez Selvarn 16:34, 4 June 2006 (PDT)

Should we split the plot into Part 1 and Part 2? -- Ramirez Selvarn 17:55, 4 June 2006 (PDT)

I don't think so... —XSG 19:11, 5 June 2006 (PDT)

I'm looking at Exodus, which is split into Part 1 and Part 2. And this article's plot section is monstrous. -- Ramirez Selvarn 19:13, 5 June 2006 (PDT)

Perhaps we should merge the two episodes of Exodus, instead? The plot is monstrous because it tells the whole story without a break, and this is the way I believe it should be. If we split the episode, which page will people put their theories on? Both? —XSG 23:13, 5 June 2006 (PDT)

Good point. Are you a SysOp that can approve a merge of Exodus? -- Ramirez Selvarn 09:10, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Theory moved from article

• We don't know that this is a non-flashback scene. It may, in fact, have taken place before the crash (and even before Penelope's engagement). (Presumably there has been electromagnetism emanating from this island for years.)
  • Nobody has provided any basis for the speculation that The Listening Station scene is a flashback, and there is a pretty conclusive list of reasons to believe that it is not a flashback:
    • 1) Flashback sequences open with an audio clue (the "whoomp" sound; see first five seconds of The Eyeland on the Lost soundtrack), and there is no "whoomp" or other transitional sound to The Listening Station scene;
    • 2) Although the producers set up puzzles by revealing things gradually, they don't have a history of playing tricks with cinematic convention. In fact, careful consistency with their own practices is one of the producers' hallmarks. When they do deviate from a practice, it is usually intentional and meaningful, and it is highly unlikely that the way this scene was presented was accidental. The placement of the scene in the episode and absence of "whoomp" sound are consistent with a scene that is contemporaneous, and while speculation about genuine clues left by the producers and writers is reasonable, at some point some things must be taken for what they appear to be when there is no contrary evidence, or the show cannot be analyzed effectively;
    • 3) The day after the episode aired, head writer Damon Lindelof had this to say in the New York Times: "People who believe that they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world." (emphasis added) That statement would have no meaning unless this was the outside world in the present, because we've been seeing the outside world in flashbacks all along. The same is suggested by Lindelof in the May 26th 2006 podcast;
    • 4) If this were a flashback, would be the first flashback scene that didn't feature a character from the island;
    • 5) Episodes rarely end with flashback scenes -- even when there is a flashback near the end of an episode, the action usually cuts back to the present before the final word "LOST" appears on the screen. But in this scene, the close-up of Penelope's face is the last shot of the episode. One episode that did end with a flashback was Dave, but in that episode, the flashback was introduced with the traditional "whoomp" sound. In the current episode, not only is there no "whoomp" sound, there is a full-fledged "fade to black" before the Listening Station scene. The Listening Station scene then begins with no preamble or introduction. In short, the whole presentation of the scene is completely different from a flashback scene.

The "Discoveries" section

Most things in it are already covered in the Plot section. I'm for making sure everything in this section is covered in the Plot and/or in the appropriate articles (like The Discharge, Desmond, Kelvin Inman) and deleting the discoveries section. What does everyone else think? -- Ramirez Selvarn 09:16, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Redundancy and repetition suck! —XSG 19:01, 6 June 2006 (PDT) —XSG 19:01, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

I fully agree. You can handle it tonight-I can't stay online much longer (bloody mother...), and I might be able to get on tomorrow. -- Ramirez Selvarn 19:06, 6 June 2006 (PDT)

Gale's feet

Probably far fetched, but the Other's feet (including Henry's) are featured quite prominently in the Pala Ferry scene. Has somebody been able to count their toes? Unfortunatly my episode's resolution does not allow that. Maybe someone who has the proper resources could check on that. --Bast 20:43, 10 June 2006 (PDT)

It looks like five toes to me. Also, they all have five fingers, so it would be especially strange to have five fingers but four toes. --Spliznork 01:32, 16 June 2006 (PDT)

Thank you, anyway. Would have been cool, though... --Bast 01:39, 16 June 2006 (PDT)

Storm that Crashed Desmond's Sailboat

The tides and general weather patterns of the island have been very odd. It was noticed in an earlier episode, I can't remember which one, that the tides on the beach all of a sudden just rose dramatically. And that one woman was killed by riptides. I think the idea of a station in the water is very probable, and that it somehow controls the tides and maybe the weather. This could very easily then lead to a deliberate effort to crash Desmond's boat.Two Coyotes 20:05, 28 June 2006 (PDT)

Troll problem

Someone under the name Brumbrum1 is screwing up articles, the Live Together, Die Alone article is now full of spam and profanities, what kinda moron would find this funny?... I don't know if this has happened to any other articles, can someone take care of this guy? --Booboo 03:50, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

Stars

Anyone else notice how prominent and bright the stars were at the end of the episode?

The Hidden ?

• After Kate and Sawyer open fire against the two Others following Jack's group, Sawyer starts to cross the river with Kate next to him. As he crosses, there is a white ? underneath the root of a tree that seems painted against some kind of black box. Perhaps this is a reference to the "?" episode or perhaps this is similar to Eko's encounter in the hatch with Yemi.
  • Perhaps it is the ? on the Blast Door Map?--Kazin 19:56, 10 July 2006 (PDT)

Link: (Look closely to the left)[4]

Category Lostaways

• Why is this episode talk page tagged with category:lostaways? I can't seem to find the tag in the talk code itself though. -- ^C¯ _Santa_ ¯^T13:40, 13 July 2006 (PDT)
  • Because in section "Walt", above, User:Jujo has included his user page as a template into this one, using the inclusion of his user page as his signature. Because everything on his user page becomes part of this one and because his user page includes the Category:Lostaways, this page also includes it. Now just hope he doesn't put other stuff into his user page. Cheers 16:10, 5 September 2006 (PDT)