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Lostpedia Debate League - Event no. 3
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TOPIC:          Mythology or Characters: Which one is the core of Lost? 
HOSTED BY:      TheAma1
JUDGES:         Lemonade, KittyLili, TokyoRose, BauerUK, LP Members

DATE:           Sunday 25th May 2008
TIME:           1900HRS BST(GMT+1) London
VENUE:          #lostpedia at irc.gamesurge.net
POPULATION:     Avg. 67 people

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What follows is a log of the entire event in verbatim.

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Introduction

<@TheAma1> Good morning/afternoon/evening/night/dawn Lostpedians! I'm TheAma1 and I'll be your host 
for this magnificent debate we've got here for you tonight!
<@TheAma1> or today for that matter
<@TheAma1> I'm so happy to be back this week, especially with Steve Holt and TheBananaStand!
<@TheAma1> Steve Holt is dead :(
<@TheBananaStand> STEVE HOLT \o/
<@TheAma1> guess not
<@TheAma1> Thank you Steve Holt for this wonderful and profound statement that touched our hearts and souls.
<@TheBananaStand> STEVE HOLT \o/
<@TheAma1> Yes, thank you. Now you can shut up. :)
<@TheAma1> Okay so back to the debate.
<@TheAma1> Tonight's topic is between the mythology and the characters of Lost: which is core to the success of our show?
<@TheAma1> The two teams tonight are
<@TheAma1> Team Ping Timeout
<@TheAma1> composed of stlgirl and TheIsland
<@TheAma1> but seriously though
<@TheAma1> Team A, arguing for mythology, comprised of
<@TheAma1> The Smiley-Faced Balloon (or A1-Smiley)
<@TheAma1> Link McCloud (or A2-LinkMcCloud)
<@TheAma1> versus
<@TheAma1> Team B, arguing for characters, composed of
<@TheAma1> lostaddict12 (or B1-lostaddict12)
<@TheAma1> Jarofclay (or B2-jarofclay73)
<@TheAma1> BobTheCob (or B3-bobthecob)
<@TheAma1> Team A's leader is A1-Smiley
<@TheAma1> Team B's leader is B1-lostaddict12
<@TheAma1> As always, the debate will be made of 5 rounds and moderated.
<@TheAma1> So sorry guys, but you won't be able to joke around about the fact that it's actually steve 
holt in the coffin!
<@TheBananaStand> STEVE HOLT \o/
<@TheAma1> Be sure to check out the debate format at the following address if you haven't done it already:
<@TheAma1> http://forum.lostpedia.com/showpost.php?p=703596&postcount=3
<@TheAma1> Round four will be a Q&A, with YOUR questions!
<@TheAma1> So don't hesitate for even one second to PM TheBananaStand or me ( TheAma1 ) with your questions!
<@TheAma1> To do that, double-click on TheBananaStand's nick, or mine, a new window will open, and then 
enter your question(s)!
<@TheAma1> You can also PM me on the forum ( http://forum.lostpedia.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=3540 )
<@TheAma1> Also don't forget to clearly indicate wether your questions is either a general one, a question 
addressed to team A (mythology) or to team B (characters)!
<@TheAma1> Indeed, 3 general questions, 2 for team A, and 2 for team B will be selected.
<@TheAma1> We really need you on this one. :)
<@TheAma1> As for the teams, if any of you members accidently quit the debate during its course, please 
PM me when you comeback to alert me that you've, well...come back!
<@TheAma1> Unless you're a zombie of course. In which case please don't come back.
<@TheAma1> Except if you have a pink shirt.
<@TheAma1> Anyhow, it's time for the debate to commence!
<@TheAma1> Ladies, gentlemen, pokémons and the Others, I present to you the grandiose, awesome, powerful, 
jaw-dropping (though not litteraly).....THIRD LOSTPEDIA DEBATE EVENT!

Round One: The Lists

<@TheAma1> Round One, The List, will begin in a minute or so.
<@TheAma1> Each team leader will have about 2 minutes to post a list of 5 points in support of their arguments.
<@TheAma1> A1-Smiley I hope you are ready :)
<@TheAma1> Your time starts...
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> Welcome to the Lostpedia Debate leave, I am Mr Balloon, and this is my colleague, Mr McCloud, 
and this is the orientation film for Team Mythology of this debate.
<+A1-Smiley> In a moment, you will be given a simple list of our main points, but first, a little history.
<+A1-Smiley> The mythology of the show has been fundamental ever since the pilot, and was the brainchild 
of Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. 
<+A1-Smiley> Following in the footsteps of the visionary J. J. Abrams, a large scale Island epic was 
created where television fans from across the globe could pursue their interest in the Whispers, The Monster,
 The Polar Bears, Healing Properties, Premonitions and Visions.
<+A1-Smiley> We should thank American broadcaster, ABC, whose financial backing made their dream of 
the series a reality.
<+A1-Smiley> Not long after the show began, however, there was an incident. Fans from across the globe 
could not decide if was down to mythology or the characters of the show which had led to its success. 
Here in Team Mythology, we are firm believers in the following five points:
<@TheAma1> 1 minute left
<+A1-Smiley> 1. The search for answers about the Island has hooked the viewers ever since the Pilot, 
and shall do throughout six seasons.
<+A1-Smiley> 2. Lost is known for the Polar Bears, Smoke Monster and the numbers more than the characters, 
setting it aside from other shows
<+A1-Smiley> 3. The Mythology fuels the character development
<+A1-Smiley> 4. The show can continue when certain characters die, and the fans don’t stop watching when 
this happens, but it the mythology is the true story to follow.
<+A1-Smiley> 5. Fans dislike certain characters, but rarely the direction of the mythology
<+A1-Smiley> Namaste
<@TheAma1> Thank you
<@TheAma1> it is now time for the opposing team to make their list public
<@TheAma1> B1-lostaddict12 I hope you are as ready as A1-Smiley
<@TheAma1> because your time starts....
<@TheAma1> NOW
<@TheAma1> + 10 scs
<+B1-lostaddict12> Welcome to the debate. Team Characters will now introduce five points supporting their arguments.
<+B1-lostaddict12> 1) The character development is core to the show, and the mythology works around it. It's sort of a constant.
<+B1-lostaddict12> 2) The viewers can relate to the characters' stories and feelings.
<@TheAma1> 1 minute left
<+B1-lostaddict12> 3) The characters are a basis for what happens, and their backstories affect how they act.
<+B1-lostaddict12> 4) The amount of characters is unique to Lost, and they keep stories for all of them well.
<+B1-lostaddict12> 5) The characters keep the show sane. If it were just mythology, it would be too unrealistic for viewers.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Thank you.
<@TheAma1> thank you very much
<@TheAma1> Now that you know the lists, it is time for round 2
<@TheAma1> A public disucssion about the teams arguments
<@congested> here's my piece about spoilers (no spoilers)
<@congested> http://www.audiblylost.com/2008/05/tale-of-two-spoilers.html
<@congested> with darkufo and docarzt
<@congested> oh sorry
<@TheAma1> uhm thank you congested :)
<@TheAma1> so
<@TheAma1> free advertising is good :)
<@TheAma1> congested please mail the cheque at the end ;)

Round Two: Team Discussion

<@TheAma1> back to round two
<@TheAma1> as I was saying
<@TheAma1> round two
<@TheAma1> each team will be voiced simultaneously
<@TheAma1> I mean
<@TheAma1> the whole team not the 2 teams together ;)
<@TheAma1> to discuss amongst themselves their arguments
<@TheAma1> they will each have 5 mns
<@TheAma1> Team A I hope you are ready
<@TheAma1> your time starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> I would like you all to cast your minds back to the Pilot
<+A1-Smiley> it may be several years since you saw such an epic piece of television
<+A1-Smiley> or indeed, just a few days
<+A1-Smiley> without barely meeting the characters, people across the world were hooked, including myself
<+A1-Smiley> What was ripping up those trees? Where are they?
<+A1-Smiley> questions have followed in a steady strem
<+A1-Smiley> *stream
<+A1-Smiley> and I doubt that many Lost fans shall desert the show, until they get their answers to the eternal questions
<+A1-Smiley> and thus, the show's popularity is due to the hunt for answers
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> like what is Dharma? what is Smokey?
<+A1-Smiley> I think, it is safe to say, people want to know this more than another chapter in Jack's past
<+A1-Smiley> these questions, and indeed, the method of the show not to hand out answers like candy, has led to its fame
<+A1-Smiley> Lost is known as the show with the numbers, or the hatch, or those pesky polar bears
<+A1-Smiley> not, I'm afraid, for the characters on the show
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> it is the mythology of the show that developes the characters
<+A1-Smiley> such as Locke's healing, allowing a whole different plane of Locke to be explored
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> would Hurley be as interesting if not surrounded by the mystery of the numbers?
<+A1-Smiley> or Sun's freedom
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> or how Locke was healed myseriously
<+A1-Smiley> The irony of being stranded on an Island can make characters go free, and this is a symbol of 
the power the mythology holds over the characters
<@TheAma1> thank you
<@TheAma1> it is now time
<@TheAma1> for Team B
<@TheAma1> Team B i hope you are ready :)
<@TheAma1> Your 5 mns starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B1-lostaddict12> You say that the mythology shapes the characters. That's backwards. Sometimes the plot can be 
bad for a character development.
<+B1-lostaddict12> This started to happen more in Season 3 on.
<+B2-jarofclay73> How many times have you heard this season - Where's Sawyer?
<+B1-lostaddict12> The characters need to stay steadily themselves, or viewers will lose interest in them.
<+B3-bobthecob> And The Pilot is all about the people
<+B1-lostaddict12> The Pilot showed how the people interacted after the crash.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Smokey was only a small detail.
<+B3-bobthecob> and how normal people cope with things like that
<+B1-lostaddict12> In fact, Season 1 was about the characters and introducing their stories.
<+B2-jarofclay73> In fact, the producers decision to NOT kill Jack in the pilot seemed to push the series in 
that direction - characters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Characters should affect plot more than plot should affect characters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> That's a basic law of fiction.
<+B3-bobthecob> There are so many Characters that everyone can connect to some one or latch onto that person
<+B3-bobthecob> Not many people can connect with a giant smoke monster or a polar bear
<+B1-lostaddict12> Yes, the character connections are a core part of Lost that keeps people interested.
<@TheAma1> thank you
<@TheAma1> I want to apologize to both team for having forgotten the "one minute left" warning :(
<@TheAma1> I shall slap my wrist 4815162342 times
<@TheAma1> but now right now, or the debate would go on forever

Round Three: Counter Arguments

<@TheAma1> So, time for Round Three
<@TheAma1> It is the counter-argument round
<@TheAma1> each team will be voiced and will have 5 mns to tear down the oponent :)
<@TheAma1> But don't forget what Bush said:
<@TheAma1> They misunderestimated me.
<@TheAma1> so don't misunderestimate your enemy!
<@TheAma1> It is time for Team A to speak
<@TheAma1> Team A I hope you are ready
<@TheAma1> your 5 mns starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> I’d like to apologise about how we didn’t complete our points there, there was a time slip like 
the Morse Code message about Doctor Ray.
<+A1-Smiley> Oh look, I just made a comment about the MYTHOLOGY
<+A1-Smiley> I think the fourth point was fairly self-explanatory, Lost has us all hooked, we won’t stop even 
if Locke or Jack dies! 
<+A1-Smiley> I would like to add that I don't see how we can 'connect' with Locke, Eko and Ben
<+A1-Smiley> to be honest, I don't know that many warlords come priests
<+A1-Smiley> whereas many people dream that they could be on the Island :p
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> you also claim Lost has a unique amount of characters
<+A2-LinkMcCloud>  yet several other shows such as Heroes, also consist of large casts
<+A1-Smiley> The location of Lost is crucial also
<+A1-Smiley> We wouldn't find the show nearly as entertaining if it was in New York, would we?
<+A1-Smiley> examples of how the characters aren't the be all and end all
<+A1-Smiley> can be found with successful RPGs like The Whispers
<+A1-Smiley> which only takes the mythology of the show and makes a successful story
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> And the characters keep the show the sane? With people like Mikhail the unkillable and Miles the ghostbuster?
<@TheAma1> 1 minute left
<+A1-Smiley> do we associate with those people?
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> they're not what you'd call sane
<+A1-Smiley> everything about the show is aimed at the mythology. The music, for example, gives you that tingling 'Island feel'
<+A1-Smiley> And I would like to add
<+A1-Smiley> that Lostpedia would not be
<+A1-Smiley> if it were not for the questions
<@TheAma1> Thank you both.
<@TheAma1> It is now time for team B to speak
<@TheAma1> and please
<@TheAma1> don't forget
<@TheAma1> that you can send us questions
<@TheAma1> either to me ( TheAma1 ) or to TheBananaStand
<@TheAma1> via PM
<@TheAma1> :)
<@TheAma1> It is now time for Team B as I was saying
<@TheAma1> Team B you will also have 5 mns
<@TheAma1> your 5 mns starts
<+B1-lostaddict12> There are many holes in your arguments.
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B3-bobthecob> How can you not connect to Locke Ben and Eko
<+B1-lostaddict12> They are humans!
<+B1-lostaddict12> Not just mythical creatures
<+B3-bobthecob> Locke Has daddy issues and is completly Lost in what to do
<+B2-jarofclay73> especially Locke & Ben!
<+B1-lostaddict12> They have backstories
<+B1-lostaddict12> And Link, you said Heroes also has many characters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Well guess what, Heroes was influenced by LOST! Surprise!
<+B3-bobthecob> Lost came first
<+B3-bobthecob> and The Location
<+B1-lostaddict12> And what about ships like Jate, Skate, Desmenelope, etc?
<+B1-lostaddict12> Those keep people hooked!
<+B3-bobthecob> I don't see how some one can be lost in New York for over 100 days
<+B2-jarofclay73> I remember a few shows here in Hawaii... One West Waikiki, North Shore, Island Son... and they 
had the location & plot but didn't have the "LOST" charcters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> The characters' relationships and how they interact in their situation is the main point of the show.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Especially Season 1.
<+B1-lostaddict12> north shore sucked.
<+B1-lostaddict12> haha
<+B3-bobthecob> The mythology can only go so far as to keep people intrested People would just think it is a crappy 
sci-fi show and wouldn't watch it
<+B1-lostaddict12> Yeah, the characters keep the show real.
<+B2-jarofclay73> Think: X-Files.
<+B1-lostaddict12> People can actually relate to the characters' feelings and actions, which keeps them interested.
<@TheAma1> 1 mn left
<+B2-jarofclay73> Even if you HATE the characters, you're still invested in them.
<+B3-bobthecob> and A person like Mikhail isn't really a character seeing how he is dead He was more just a presence 
in the Show and had only one serious impact on it
<+B3-bobthecob> Killing Charlie
<+B1-lostaddict12> Mikhail was a plot device.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Not necessarily a character.
<+B1-lostaddict12> He wasn't a main FB character
<@TheAma1> Thank you :)

Short Break

<@TheAma1> Lot's of emotions
<@TheAma1> I bet Steve Holt would agree with me
<@TheBananaStand> STEVE HOLT \o/
<@TheAma1> as well as
<@TheAma1> .kadaj
<@TheBananaStand> Kadaj: Just one thing...I'm gonna need the boy now!
<@TheAma1> Anyway
<@TheAma1> It's time to take a short break
<@TheAma1> and by short I mean 10 minutes
<@TheAma1> so I'll see you in 10 minutes
<@TheAma1> enjoy your food
<@TheAma1> and toilet break
<@TheAma1> Don't forget to send questions. :)
<@TheAma1> Okay
<@TheAma1> everyone
<@TheAma1> please take your seat
<@TheAma1> the debate will now continue
<@TheAma1> just to check
<@TheAma1> Is team A here?
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> yes sir
<+A1-Smiley> Yes sir
<@TheAma1> Team B are you here?
<+B1-lostaddict12> I am Here!
<+B2-jarofclay73> aye
<+B3-bobthecob> NOPE
<+B1-lostaddict12> Sir!
<@TheAma1> Okay great
<@TheAma1> Now
<@TheAma1> It's time for the fun to begin

Round Four: Q&A

<@TheAma1> It's....Q&A time!
<@TheAma1> Beware that I have some vicious questions for you all
<@TheAma1> We will start by a general question
<@TheAma1> you will have a minute to think of your response
<@TheAma1> and then BOTH team SIMULTANEOUSLY will be voiced and will have 5 minutes to respond
<@TheAma1> Our first question for tonight was asked by
<@TheAma1> fredcar
<@TheAma1> fedcar asks:
<@TheAma1> The freighter and it's arrival was a large part of season 4. On which side of the mythology vs character 
argument, has this made the most impact? examples would be preferred :)
<@TheAma1> I'll give you a minute to think about it
<@TheAma1> Okay guys
<@TheAma1> I hope you peeps are ready
<@TheAma1> because your 5 mns starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> I have always viewed the mythology of the show
<+B2-jarofclay73> "Confirmed Dead" - confirms that it is CHARACTERS.
<+B1-lostaddict12> In the 402 Confirmed Dead, we learned basic backstories of the 4 team members.
<+A1-Smiley> to be the environment in which the Losties were put by Oceanic Flight 815
<+A1-Smiley> And in this environment, there was a war over the Island by Widmore and Ben
<+B1-lostaddict12> The freighter also brought characters like Keamy, and brought Michael back.
<+A1-Smiley> Ben, claiming to wanting to protect the Island, and Widmore, trying to use its powers for his own 'good'
<+B1-lostaddict12> Then there was the Des/Penny phone call.
<+B2-jarofclay73> And new relationships, like Charladay.
<+A1-Smiley> this means that it is a mythological debate
<+B1-lostaddict12> Ben and Widmore are characters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Duh.
<+A1-Smiley> As they are after the powers of the Island
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> the arrival of the freighter even brought it's own mysteries, such as what is it? who sent it? what 
is it's purpose? All of which are mythology
<+A1-Smiley> Do you mind?
<+B2-jarofclay73> It's simultaneous.
<+A1-Smiley> No you Link, the person going 'Duh'
<+A1-Smiley> I know it is, look, back to the issue at hand, where I was proving that its mythological
<+B1-lostaddict12> I'm debating my side, isn't that ok?
<+A1-Smiley> You aren't meant to attack me though
<+B1-lostaddict12> Not attacking
<+A1-Smiley> *summons Smokey*
<+B1-lostaddict12> *summons Ben*
<+A1-Smiley> This is an example of the mythology of the show explored through the arrival
<+B1-lostaddict12> OK. Back to the debate.
<+A1-Smiley> because of the freighter's arrival
<+A1-Smiley> It was part of the debate, actually
<+A1-Smiley> the freigher characters have barely been explored
<+A1-Smiley> Only one episode centred on them
<+B1-lostaddict12> The freighter's arrival introduced several characters
<+B3-bobthecob> The Charcters from the Freighter are becoming a phenom specially Charladay 
<+B3-bobthecob> IT WAS ARTICLE OF THE WEEK
<+B1-lostaddict12> But viewers are already connecting to the characters.
<+A1-Smiley> so they aren't really here to be characters, but to endanger the Island
<+B1-lostaddict12> Look at the Charladay obsessions.
<+B1-lostaddict12> haha
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> the arrival also brought out more island mythology: for example the revealing of the Orchid, the 
revelation that Smokey can be summoned, the Tempest revealed
<+A1-Smiley> The characters sent were specialists in the Island's mysteries
<+B1-lostaddict12> Faraday is already a well developed character.
<+B2-jarofclay73> Well, don't hold your breath for a Smokey flashback. :)
<+A1-Smiley> Charlotte isn't there to be a great character
<+A1-Smiley> but they were chose, by Abaddon, for their skills
<+A1-Smiley> in exploring the Island
<@TheAma1> 1 ùmn
<@TheAma1> left
<@TheAma1> 1 minute left*
<+A1-Smiley> they are there because of the Island
<+B1-lostaddict12> Exactly. The plot swayed the characters
<+B1-lostaddict12> which is not exactly a good thing
<+B3-bobthecob> I think The fact that she has already had a confrontation with Jin and has a "thing" with Daniel 
says otherwise Smiley
<+A1-Smiley> The fact that most of them are dead
<+B2-jarofclay73> The freighter in essence was another great way to introduce new characters, bring back old ones 
and the mix has made for a successful Season 4.
<+A1-Smiley> shows that they are expendable
<+B1-lostaddict12> Look at Keamy.
<+A1-Smiley> to the overall plot
<@TheAma1> Thank you
<@TheAma1> That was a pretty intense conversation
<@TheAma1> with a Charladay reference
<@TheAma1> that's always win in my book
<@TheAma1> but fortunately (or unfortunately?) I'm not a biased judge
<@TheAma1> I'm just a biased Host!
<@TheAma1> anyway
<@TheAma1> time for a team-specific question
<@TheAma1> directed at Team A
<@TheAma1> so
<@TheAma1> this question was asked by
<@TheAma1> statico
<@TheAma1> oops
<@TheAma1> I mean
<@TheAma1> stlgirl
<@TheAma1> but it's the same PSF
<@TheAma1> so who cares
<@TheAma1> anyway
<@TheAma1> stlgirl asks
<@TheAma1> You argue that music is there for the mythology like Lost is the first performance to use music. Music 
is used to evoke emotions from the audience to help them connect with the characters and what is going on. Dark, 
ominous music to make you feel as scared as the character. Explain what that has to do with mythology.
<@TheAma1> Team A you have a minute
<@TheAma1> okay
<@TheAma1> Team A prepare to argue
<@TheAma1> your 4 mns starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> Apologies if we both speak at once, there's just so many arguments in our favor that we may follow 
a few trends of thought each. 
<+A1-Smiley> The overall Lost music is distinctive to the mystery of the Island
<+A1-Smiley> indeed, there are classic examples of character-related music
<+A1-Smiley> perhaps we need this music to associate with Mr Eko?
<+A1-Smiley> they're such bizzare characters
<+A1-Smiley> the music is also used to enforce mythological features too
<+A1-Smiley> such as being chased by the Monster
<+A1-Smiley> or the classic example of Juliet's arrival on the Island
<+A1-Smiley> which is similar to Season One music
<+A1-Smiley> where it is used to describe the Island
<+A1-Smiley> It creates an overall atmosphere
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> in which the music ampilfies the memorablity of the scene and thus embed them into your memory
<+A1-Smiley> We can't deny that there are themes for characters
<+A1-Smiley> as without characters there wouldn't be a show
<+A1-Smiley> but without the mythology, it wouldn't be so successful
<+A1-Smiley> Even the ominous Lost title music, at just over 10 seconds long
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> nor would it have the great tracks with were used with memorable scenes
<+A1-Smiley> lures the viewer into the mysteries that the episode will raise
<@TheAma1> 20 scs left
<@TheAma1> sorry
<+A1-Smiley> I think we're done
<@TheAma1> okay
<@TheAma1> Thank you both
<@TheAma1> You were right Smiley. It was a indeed a crowded discussion, I could barely distinguish who was talking 
amongst the two of you. :)
<@TheAma1> so
<@TheAma1> Team B
<@TheAma1> you will have a minute to counter
<@TheAma1> your minute starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B1-lostaddict12> When you say it wouldn't be a show without characters, you're flat out shooting yourself in the 
foot. There can be a show without much mythology, but it has to have characters.
<+B3-bobthecob> I didn't know we could debate against our selves
<+B3-bobthecob> Because you basically just argued that the music is for the characters
<+B1-lostaddict12> You guys basically agreed with the asker
<+B3-bobthecob> Juliets arrival
<+B1-lostaddict12> who had a good point
<@TheAma1> 30 seconds
<+B3-bobthecob> Shows how overwhelmed Juliet when she arrived
<+B3-bobthecob> or The monster chasing
<+B3-bobthecob> conveyed fear
<+B3-bobthecob> IN THE CHARACTERS
<@TheAma1> thanks a bunch
<@TheAma1> Now, time for a team b-specific question
<@TheAma1> I think it's an awesome question
<@TheAma1> obviously
<@TheAma1> because it's asked by me
<@TheAma1> so
<@TheAma1> I ask team B the following
<@TheAma1> in reference to a previous example
<@TheAma1> If you think Mikhail was a device plot that was used to kill Charlie, wouldn't that mean that every 
single character is also a device plot, and therefore a tool, in him/her/itself? For instance, Locke killed 
Naomi. Every character is by essence a device plot (or else there would be no plot), ergo: mythology is character,
 and character is mythology. Discuss.
<@TheAma1> you have a minute to gather your thoughts
<@TheAma1> okay
<@TheAma1> Team B
<@TheAma1> I hope you are ready
<@TheAma1> your 4 minutes starts...
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B1-lostaddict12> There are main characters and there are plot characters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Main characters usually have backstories/FBs so we can see their stories and relate to them.
<+B3-bobthecob> Also if you looked at stories like that then everything is a plot device
<+B2-jarofclay73> Did we need to know Mikhail's backstory? No.
<+B3-bobthecob> EVERYTHING
<+B3-bobthecob> It would of been nice
<+B3-bobthecob> because Mikhail is awesome
<+B1-lostaddict12> We didn't even need Mikhail-- Charlie would have died anyway.
<+B2-jarofclay73> So, we even see how characters bleed INTO plot.
<+B3-bobthecob> And also Ama brought up why this is a hard debate topic
<+B2-jarofclay73> Or even how characters BLEED into mythology - as in Danielle.
<+B1-lostaddict12> And that's a main point of ours.
<@TheAma1> thank you
<+B1-lostaddict12> The first of our 5 points
<+B1-lostaddict12> plot works around characters
<@TheAma1> 1 mn left
<+B3-bobthecob> what a difficult question
<+B1-lostaddict12> Characters are the "constant", and the plot/mythology needs to work around them.
<+B2-jarofclay73> The mythology hinges on characters.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Mikhail was needed, but not so much a character as a plot device.
<+B2-jarofclay73> Because smokey just can't do everything.
<+B3-bobthecob> Smokey can't swim
<+B2-jarofclay73> Or jump sonic fences.
<@TheAma1> Thank you three
<@TheAma1> yes bob smokey can't swim
<@TheAma1> it was indeed a difficult, yet awesome, question
<@TheAma1> unfortunately for you
<@TheAma1> I'm not a judge
<@TheAma1> therefore, kissing my ass doesn't work
<@TheAma1> :)
<@TheAma1> So
<@TheAma1> It is time for another general question
<@TheAma1> this next question is asked by fredcar
<@TheAma1> fredcar! oh my!
<@TheAma1> oops
<@TheAma1> forgot
<@TheAma1> :)
<@TheAma1> thje counter
<@TheAma1> SO YES
<@TheAma1> Team A
<@TheAma1> has a minute to counter
<@TheAma1> Team A your minute starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> “We didn't even need Mikhail-- Charlie would have died anyway.” That’s a nice nuclear missile to the 
foot there. You’re trying to say that the mythology killed Charlie?
<+A1-Smiley> I really like this 'The characters are the Constant' idea, because Constants are part of the mythology
<@TheAma1> 10 scs
<+A1-Smiley> And what does Smokey not being able to swim affect the show's success in any form?
<+A1-Smiley> whatsoever?
<+A1-Smiley> many thanks
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> and you said how Characters bleed into the mythology. Are you sure it isn't the other way around?
<@TheAma1> many thanks to you both
<@TheAma1> Yes sorry, I almost forgot the counter
<@TheAma1> I guess bobthecob succeeded
<@TheAma1> almost at least
<@TheAma1> his ass kissing was delightful
<@TheAma1> anyhow
<@TheAma1> as I was saying
<@TheAma1> time for a general question
<@TheAma1> asked by fredcar
<@TheAma1> fredcar asks both team the following:
<@TheAma1> The use of flashbacks and flasforwards are a key part of the show. How do they support your side in the 
mythology vs character argument?
<@TheAma1> you have a mn to think
<@TheAma1> okay guys
<@TheAma1> both team will be voiced simultaneously
<@TheAma1> Start the clock...
<+A1-Smiley> Many people complain that the Flashbacks were passing their sell by date, and that an example of 
Stranger in a Strange Land proved that they were becoming more trivial to the story. 
<@TheAma1> now
<+B1-lostaddict12> Flashbacks (and flashforwards) establish characters' backstories, which set a base for what 
happens on the island. The backstories are the main platforms for the characters, which show the viewers the characters in general.
<+A1-Smiley> Flashbacks, which are generally less popular than on-island events, are the time we leave behind 
the mythology behind and purely examine the characters. 
<+A1-Smiley> How come the years of their lives can barely start to make up as much airtime as their time on the Island?
 This may be because the Island has such control over the characters. 
<+B3-bobthecob> The fact that That Flashfowards was intrduced is a counter to the redundancy of the flashbacks
<+A1-Smiley> Which is, the mythology dictates the characters on Island
<+A1-Smiley> the redundancy of flashbacks being that we have tired of their stories
<+B3-bobthecob> HENCE Flashfowards
<+A1-Smiley> it's the Island we want to see, and the mythology is extended to these FFs
<+B1-lostaddict12> Flashbacks/forwards on Lost are unique in how they connect the characters' pasts to how they act.
<+A1-Smiley> through the Sayid and Ben storyline
<+B2-jarofclay73> In fact, Stranger In A Strange Land, while it moved along the mythology of the tattoo failed 
to provide any real useful information about Jack's character which is why it was deemed a failure.
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> the flashback/flashforwad in itself has become part of the shows mythology
<+A1-Smiley> Either they report to Jacob, follow visions, or can’t die because it won’t let them. The Island 
literally controls the plot. Michael can’t die not because of anything he’s done, but what he Island wants him to do. As Ama said, they’re tools.
<+A1-Smiley> These on-island events, which are better, are the Island's doing
<+A1-Smiley> Even Jack’s leadership is attributable to the events in White Rabbit, where he follows Christian.
<+B1-lostaddict12> They establish their personalities, which affect what they do on the island.
<+A1-Smiley> That is a major character point, Jack's leadership and stabilty. And the Island guided him to it
<+A1-Smiley> Many people love Ben
<+B2-jarofclay73> Flashfowards/backs/sidewards are definitely CHARACTER driven.
<+A1-Smiley> But he didn't have a flashback until near the end of the third season
<+B3-bobthecob> The Flashback dictate how characters act to situations on the island and the Flashfowards dictate how they act after the island events
<+A1-Smiley> But we had no flashbacks, excluding ATOTC
<+A1-Smiley> but we still loved him
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> why is that, Mr. Ballon?
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> I'll tell you why
<+A1-Smiley> He is commanded by Jacobn
<+B1-lostaddict12> That is a major character point, Jack's leadership and stabilty.: I thought you were supposed to be arguing mythology?
<+A1-Smiley> he knows things
<+A1-Smiley> and this forms his chracter
<+B2-jarofclay73> Which is why we won't see a Smokey flashback.
<+A1-Smiley> The character point, DUE TO the Island
<+A1-Smiley> the Flashbacks are less popular
<+A1-Smiley> and these are the times we leave the Island and the mythology
<+B1-lostaddict12> The plot shouldn't shuffle around the characters. Characters need to stay stable.
<+B1-lostaddict12> The plot however can move
<+A1-Smiley> The best flashbacks are the time travel ones, according the views of LP
<+B3-bobthecob> The Mythology of the island Can't pull in Some old lady flipping throught the channels but 
a doctor trying to save a lady form being a vegetable will suck her in
<@TheAma1> One minute left my friends
<+A1-Smiley> which are not to be doubted under and circumstances
<+B3-bobthecob> Not Watching him run from a giant ball of smoke
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> the flashes are there to move the plot along, which has already been stated as being a 
part of the mythology over the characters
<+A1-Smiley> I think an old woman is more likely to think "What is that cloud of smoke" or "why is there 
a polar bear in a jungle?"
<+A1-Smiley> than "Ook look, Jack and Kate are kissing"
<+B2-jarofclay73> Technically time travel episodes like "The Constant" are NOT flashbacks.  
His consciousness actually moves through time.
<+A1-Smiley> which we can get on any old drama or soap opera
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> with is the mythology of the show!
<+B1-lostaddict12> consciousness = character
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> *which
<+B3-bobthecob> Just think Old ladies probraly wonder why ther kids don't visit
<+B3-bobthecob> and don't watch tc
<+B3-bobthecob> tv
<+A1-Smiley> Yes, and the time travel replaced the usual FBs
<+A1-Smiley> and were better
<+B2-jarofclay73> And the big thing about "The Constant" is the CHARACTER RELATIONSHIP between Desmond and Penny.
<+B1-lostaddict12> why are we talking about old ladies?
<@TheAma1> Thank you all
<@TheAma1> Our next question is a team specific one
<@TheAma1> addressed to team B
<@TheAma1> This questions was asked by Lemonade
<@TheAma1> Yes, a drink can ask interesting questions like:
<@TheAma1> Fans have often complained that character behavior on Lost is inconsistent, even unrealistic -- 
one of the most commonly sited example being lack of questioning of Juliet. Considering the fairly large "character holes"
 in Lost, I think it is unfair to claim that characters are the real reason for Lost's critical success.  Please counter.
<@TheAma1> Team B you have a minute
<@TheAma1> Your time starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B2-jarofclay73> there
<+B3-bobthecob> Pretty Sure Juliet knows jack squat about that is going
<+B1-lostaddict12> As I have said many times, any "character holes" are because of the PLOT. The plot changes the characters,
 which is not good. The characters stay constant while the plot works around it.
<+B2-jarofclay73> I think fan complaints are unfair as well.
<+B3-bobthecob> The fact that these everyday people are thrown into the most F**ked situation ever just shows how strong the
 characters are and that most people are trusting of other people
<+B2-jarofclay73> Is the mythology any more unrealistic?
<+B1-lostaddict12> If plot comes before characters, the characters' stability will suffer, which is bad for the show's consistency.
 Thus, character must come before plot.
<+B3-bobthecob> I mean if I was lost on an island and people drop on a helicopter I would trust them with my life if I thought it
 would get me off
<+B1-lostaddict12> Yeah, if you think characters are unrealistic, you obviously haven't seen smokey. Now THAT'S unrealistic.
<+B2-jarofclay73> I think a 2006 Screen Actors Guild Award speaks for itself - the acting of the characters.
<+B3-bobthecob> These people are stranded and scared and need someone to turn too
<+B1-lostaddict12> some ONE, not some THING
<+B3-bobthecob> and anyone that seems to know more than them they are going to latch on them
<+B2-jarofclay73> People are inconsistent - that's called being human.
<@TheAma1> 1 minute left
<+B3-bobthecob> Yea I didn't see smokey on stage thinking his parents when they won the Sag Award
<+B3-bobthecob> Thanking even
<+B1-lostaddict12> Remember, Jacob is a character. Yes, he's part of the mythology, but he's a person of some sort.
<+B2-jarofclay73> And the mythology isn't consistent either - South Pacific or near Indonesia did 815 crash?
<+B3-bobthecob> Character holes are there because there needs to be some mystery to the characters
<+B3-bobthecob> We don't have to know everything about them yet
<@TheAma1> Thanks
<@TheAma1> Team A will have a minute to counter
<@TheAma1> starting...
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> Bob- you’ll note that the fans don’t want the Losties to be rescued, as it would end the exploration 
of the mythology.
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> You can say the characters must come before the plot because it makes characters unstable, yet 
you have yet to provide an example of one such time, while we’ve provided several examples of the plot positively changing characters
<+A1-Smiley> So the characters aren't doing what we want there
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> And LA, you said characters are changed by the plot, which only proves our point the character 
development is driven by the mythology!
<@TheAma1> 30 scs 
<+A1-Smiley> And people report to Jacob for answers to the mythology. We have no proof that he is a character, he 
could be an incarnation of the Island. In any case, these Losties who “want someone to turn to” often find hope in
 the form of the Island’s visions, and in Locke’s case, deliberately seeking these.
<+A1-Smiley> The Island often saves them
<+A1-Smiley> not the other characters
<+A1-Smiley> ta-da?
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> such as with Rose and her cancer
<@TheAma1> Thank you both for this
<@TheAma1> And now, another, final, team-A specific question
<@TheAma1> this question was asked to us by
<@TheAma1> pseuMdYnym
<@TheAma1> in reference to his website, The Whispers
<@TheAma1> indeed, he asks Team A the following:
<@TheAma1> I'd like to enter one directed at Team A, since they used my website for their argument, which is appreciated,
 but I'm not in agreement with them.  "Since you used the whispers as an arguement for mythology v. characters, how do 
you explain that the last rule in TW states that 'Character development, and not answering the mysteries, is what is important.
 Afterall, the characters are the most important part of the show"?
<@TheAma1> of course pseuMdYnym is a girl
<@TheAma1> not like Kadaj
<@TheAma1> who's a PSF
<@TheAma1> anyway
<@TheAma1> yo uhave a minute
<@TheAma1> Team A to think about that
<@TheAma1> okay
<@TheAma1> your 4 mns starts...
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> Pseu, the rules also state that we can't deviate too far from the mythology of Lost
<+A1-Smiley> We protect it greatly
<+A1-Smiley> for we don't know what's around the corner
<+A1-Smiley> and don't want to contradict it in any way
<+A1-Smiley> added to that, the whole point of the RPG is to use other characters in the same setting as Lost
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> while we change the characters, the mythology stays the same
<+A1-Smiley> i.e. we don't need Jack and co to have a good story
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> the mythology is what drives it
<+A1-Smiley> The Whispers is a shining example
<+A1-Smiley> of why the mythology is the hub of Lost
<+A1-Smiley> the RPG is not set on any old desert Island
<+A1-Smiley> but one where we can experience the Whispers, the Monster, and Polar Bears
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> it is set on THE Island, which is the main center of the mythology of Lost
<+A1-Smiley> Character development is where we show how the Island changes them
<+A1-Smiley> it isn't so much about the characters changing
<+A1-Smiley> but the effects of the Island
<+A1-Smiley> Such as Michael's inability to die, it raises the question... why?
<+A1-Smiley> and it is exploring this why we play The Whispers
<@TheAma1> 1 mn left
<+A1-Smiley> we want to experience the Island
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> many of the characters in the Whispers wouldn't have done what they did if not crash onto the Island,
 and thus into the mythology
<+A1-Smiley> as first hand as we can
<+A1-Smiley> by writing a story on it ourselves
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> it was the mythology that changed them
<+A1-Smiley> by weaving in the numbers
<+A1-Smiley> which we know are bad
<@TheAma1> !deop TheSecuritySystem
<+A1-Smiley> and to get that Lost 'buzz'
<+A1-Smiley> JOIN THE WHISPERS!
<@TheAma1> Thank you
<@TheAma1> It is now time for a 1-minute counter
<@TheAma1> made by Team B
<@TheAma1> Your minute starts
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B3-bobthecob> The characters are constant Link Not the mythology We get new mysteries all the time but Characters 
stay the same and also It is hard to introduce new characters to the show hence Exspose
<+B1-lostaddict12> First of all, I don't think it's fair that the RPG was even brought up in the debate, since not 
all of us have played it.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Second of all, that wasn't much of a question, Pseu was just contradicting you.
<@TheAma1> 30
<@TheAma1> scs
<+B3-bobthecob> The Fact that People have such strong feelings for character that anything that distracts them Angers them
<+B2-jarofclay73> Imagine what "Lost" would be if it was ONE person engaging a LOT of mythology... it would be a totally 
different show with drastically different results.
<+B1-lostaddict12> THE ISLAND IS A CHARACTER
<+B3-bobthecob> CAPS
<@TheAma1> indeed CAPS
<@TheAma1> well
<@TheAma1> It is time for our last question of the night
<@TheAma1> :'(
<@TheAma1> I'm tearing up :(
<@TheAma1> This question was asked by Kadaj. She asks: I love Pikachu (I'm a PSF so this explains that). 
Pikachu is core to the mythology of Pokémon. But there's no Island. Discuss.
<@TheAma1> Oops, wrong channel
<@TheAma1> This (real) last question was asked actually by Lemonade!
<@TheAma1> He asks
<@TheAma1> REALLY
<@TheAma1> "Characters and Mythology go hand in hand, and are inseparable. This debate is pointless."  Please counter.
<@TheAma1> You have just wasted 90 minutes of your life.
<@TheAma1> This is a REAL question
<@TheAma1> You have a minute
<@TheAma1> to think about it
<@TheAma1> (both teams)
<@TheAma1> so
<@TheAma1> both teams
<@TheAma1> You have 5 minutes
<@TheAma1> please discuss thouroughly
<@TheAma1> Your time starts when I have voiced EVERYBODY
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B3-bobthecob> Agreed I could of been doing Laundry or something or watching a movie
<+A1-Smiley> We here on Team Mythology aren’t deluded. Of course there are characters, in response to previous counters by Team B earlier on,
 but we’re giving a realist argument. We can’t completely ignore either side. But you don’t see cult followings for Desperate Housewives 
like for Lost, do you?
<+B1-lostaddict12> I admit, I pretty much agree with this statement. Lost would not be Lost if it weren't for both. BUT...Characters are more important
<+A1-Smiley> The debate is looking for which is the most important
<+B1-lostaddict12> Both are important, but which one is MORE important
<+B3-bobthecob> I think Chickens and Rock movers are more important
<+A1-Smiley> which is the mythology, because if it wasn't for the depth of Lost
<+B1-lostaddict12> and the answer is CHARACTERS
<+A1-Smiley> because of said mysteries
<+A1-Smiley> then this debate would not exist
<+A1-Smiley> Lostpedia would not exist
<+B3-bobthecob> Mythology is Characters and Characters are Awesome
<+B2-jarofclay73> While mythology is nice to debate about, the BIGGEST debates about LOST are about Jaters/Skaters/Charladay, etc.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Remember, the Island is a Character
<+B3-bobthecob> OR IS IT
<+A1-Smiley> Admin created the site because "“He originally built the site to find the answers to the show, as well as pick up wiki skills. "
<+B1-lostaddict12> this has been said by TPTB
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> the one that is MORe important is the mythology, for the simple fact that the characters would be changed a 
number of times and nothing would happen, but if the mythology was, the show would change completely
<+B3-bobthecob> I like all aspects of the show
<+B1-lostaddict12> Answers is not just about mythology. There are questions about the characters as well.
<+A1-Smiley> The Island as a character is proof that the mythology of the show is so important that an ISLAND is a character
<+B2-jarofclay73> Character killing is a BIG part of the show.
<+B3-bobthecob> I like Characters and dislike Characters same goes for Mythology
<+B2-jarofclay73> Those are the most important events in the show - because we CARE about the characters.
<+A1-Smiley> and if an Island can be a character
<+B3-bobthecob> Sometimes it gets so crazy that I just want to shoot my big toe
<+B1-lostaddict12> I guarantee if you look through the main forum there will be as many questions about Characters as there are about Mythology.
<+B2-jarofclay73> Who's in the coffin?  We care.
<+A1-Smiley> the mythology must be hugely important
<+A1-Smiley> Who's the in the coffin is less important than what is the Monster?
<+B3-bobthecob> Both are important
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> you care because it's part of the mythology!
<+B2-jarofclay73> Is Jin really dead? A lot of people are holding onto hope! :)
<+B1-lostaddict12> Link, I think you meant to say characters?
<+B3-bobthecob> Can Smokey Swim? see no one is asking this question
<+B1-lostaddict12> a CHARACTER is in the coffin
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> no I didn't
<+A1-Smiley> People care about both sides
<+B1-lostaddict12> not a smoke monster
<+B3-bobthecob> They are about Jack and Locke
<+A1-Smiley> Smokey swim - you brought up the irrelevant point!
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> Yes, but the MYSTERY is mythology
<@TheAma1> One Minute Left guys and gals.
<+B1-lostaddict12> As I said, there are questions about Characters as well as about mythology.
<+B1-lostaddict12> The Coffin is a character question
<+A1-Smiley> but the mythological ones are more more interesting to the masses
<+A2-LinkMcCloud> they ask about the characters because the Characters have been changed by the mythology and thus affected by it
<+B3-bobthecob> if this debate is anything but a draw I might be angry
<+B3-bobthecob> because Lemon is right
<+B2-jarofclay73> Ben - Widmore connection?  I think a lot are really interested in that.
<+A1-Smiley> Currently, we're left on a mythological note about what the Orchid is
<@TheAma1> Thank you five
<@TheAma1> That was really interesting indeed
<@TheAma1> Wikipedia ftw
<@TheAma1> anyway
<@TheAma1> This debate is almost over
<@TheAma1> :(

Round Five: Closing Statements

<@TheAma1> It is time now
<@TheAma1> for the ultimate round
<@TheAma1> Round Five
<@TheAma1> AKA
<@TheAma1> The Closing Statements
<@TheAma1> I have chills down my bodies
<@TheAma1> especially around my lower regions
<@TheAma1> now
<@TheAma1> Each team leader will be given 6 mns
<@TheAma1> to close 
<@TheAma1> Team Leader A AKA A1-Smiley I hope you are ready
<@TheAma1> *3 minutes
<@TheAma1> not 6
<@TheAma1> :)
<@TheAma1> so
<@TheAma1> 3 minutes
<@TheAma1> A1-Smiley
<@TheAma1> I hope you are ready as hell because
<@TheAma1> YOUR TIME STARTS
<+A1-Smiley> Before I begin, I would like to say a huge thanks to Mr McCloud, who has been doing a terrific job behind the scenes, 
setting me up for all of the talking.
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+A1-Smiley> I have a few pieces of evidence to close our case.
<+A1-Smiley> The Prisoner, a UK cult show, was made in the 1960s. For those familiar with it, such as KittyLili (hi!), it was most 
probably huge influence on Lost and is still talked about today. It is the only show I have ever heard to be ‘like Lost’ in its questions and mythology. 
<+A1-Smiley> And it is still thoroughly enjoyed today, but other 60s shows have long since died out. Lost should do the same, because 
of its mythology. Character-based shows fade far more quickly than something completely different.
<+A1-Smiley> If people wanted to watch love triangles, they'd watch a soap opera or other drama. Lost isn't there for that
<+A1-Smiley> As Daniel might say "Love triangles? I can't really say that it's our primary objective"
<+A1-Smiley> There are Claters, Chaters, anti-Jack fans, “We Hate Locke!” threads… But never a "Urgh, get rid of that silly cloud of 
smoke" or "Why did they bother with this Island anyway?" thread. 
<+A1-Smiley> The characters in Lost are the chess pieces, to what the story needs to do to unfold the mythology. The game of chess is 
getting the answers. And the characters are just pawns, literally, to do so.
<+A1-Smiley> The characters aren’t always new concepts, such as the Doctor who just has to fix things, or the con man who reforms… 
And those more original ones, we just can’t associate with. 
<+A1-Smiley> Such as Locke, we can't imagine what he's thinking
<+A1-Smiley> it's hard to feel for them the same
<+A1-Smiley> Finally, some quantitative evidence: The Man Behind The Curtain, which is widely seem as a huge ‘download’ of information, 
exploring the past of DHARMA, saw ratings soar for that episode, creating news articles on television websites and Lostpedia.
<@TheAma1> One minute left brotha
<+A1-Smiley> This followed a very character-driven episode, The Brig. I think this shows that the mythology attracts more viewers, 
which surely, is a significant factor in Lost’s success.
<+A1-Smiley> Here, mythology directly boosts ratings
<+A1-Smiley> Add to that how so many Lost fans shall wait right until the very end, we see how it is the Mythology which pulls us along 
for the show, not the characters, who often die (especially on that island!) but television sets don’t turn of because of it. People 
think Lost, and they think numbers and Polar Bears… It’s what sets it aside from the rest, and what fuels the ability to hold these debates. 
<+A1-Smiley> From all of us here at Team Mythology, thank you, namaste, and good luck
<@TheAma1> Thanks Smiley
<@TheAma1> It's now time for Team B's leader
<@TheAma1> B1-lostaddict12
<@TheAma1> for her closing statement
<@TheAma1> 3 minutes again
<@TheAma1> Which are starting...
<@TheAma1> NOW
<+B1-lostaddict12> Friends, Losties, countrymen, lend me your ears. First of all, I need to thank Jarofclay and BobtheCob for being awesome. 
And thank you to all the ops, judges, question askers etc.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Now I have some final points to solidify before this is over.
<+B1-lostaddict12> We on Team B have established why characters are more important than mythology.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Characters are a main reason viewers are hooked, because they can connect to the show.
<+B1-lostaddict12> Look at characters such as Locke. Even if they are involved in the mythology, they are still humans, and viewers can relate to them.
<@TheAma1> One minute left sista
<+B1-lostaddict12> The Man Behind The Curtain, as Smiley mentioned, is a very character-centric episode as well. It shows the hardships of Ben's childhood.
<+B1-lostaddict12> and how he dealt with his dad.
<@TheAma1> Thank you

Conclusion

<@TheAma1> Well
<@TheAma1> that was a pretty interesting debate
<@TheAma1> I want to thank all the debaters
<@TheAma1> A1-Smiley
<@TheAma1> A2-LinkMcCloud
<@TheAma1> B1-lostaddict12
<@TheAma1> B2-jarofclay73
<@TheAma1> B3-bobthecob
<@TheAma1> as well as the judges
<@TheAma1> BauerUK
<@TheAma1> KittyLili
<@TheAma1> TokyoRose1
<@TheAma1> Lemonade
<@TheAma1> and of course YOU people
<@TokyoRose1> And thanks Ama for being our flawless host :p
<@TheAma1> for helping us make this debate an event
<@TheAma1> flawless? :) thanks :p
<@TheAma1> I was distracted by Kadaj the PSF
<@TheAma1> sorry
<@TheAma1> speaking of PSF
<@TheAma1> thanks to all the LP ops
<@TheAma1> We'll see you next week
<@TheAma1> for a brand new debate
<@TheAma1> EVENT 4
<@TheAma1> You can now vote for you favorite team
<@KittyLili> http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=14013
<@TheAma1> at the online poll
<@TokyoRose1> Well done debaters! and thank you 
<@TheAma1> don't forget to join in for next week too :)
<@TheAma1> We'll see you next week
<@TheAma1> ENJOY THE FINALE

Event Winner

The winner of the May 25, 2008 debate: Team A (Arguing for Mythology)